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nylynnr
11-09-2012, 10:57 PM
Oh ye (all) of little faith! ;)

ETA: I think the U.S. guys are all setting individual goals to improve their international results/standings, but many of them have yet to execute under the pressure of Senior Grand Prix competition... but that's what early season competitions are for and about.

Razzano won silver and Mahbanoozadeh bronze in Graz today (neither landed a quad in the FS but quads aren't everything).

I agree it is counterproductive to be negative, but still, it is a tad disappointing that the two, who have both competed at previous competitions this season including Skate America, didn't do a bit better with non-quad elements. Certainly Liebers made his own mistakes, yet managed to do enough to gain a far higher FS score that either American.

jlai
11-10-2012, 02:02 AM
The US men haven't had a promising newcomer to the GP to shake up the scene. The "new" US man this season is the returning Johnny; Evan hasn't come back; right now, there's no leader. The energy level among US men is bound to be a bit...languid. Perhaps Josh would skate well at US nationals and get sent to 4CC or something to boost the energy level.

I wish USFS helped Josh get 2 gps, not just for Josh's sake. You need to promote new comers to inject new energy to your program, esp. when your top skaters have been the same people for a while.

On the up side, thanks to several rejuvenated veterans and a newbie Gracie Gold, the energy level among US ladies has changed, and I'm getting excited about US ladies again.

pinky166
11-10-2012, 03:01 AM
The US men haven't had a promising newcomer to the GP to shake up the scene. The "new" US man this season is the returning Johnny; Evan hasn't come back; right now, there's no leader. The energy level among US men is bound to be a bit...languid. Perhaps Josh would skate well at US nationals and get sent to 4CC or something to boost the energy level.

I wish USFS helped Josh get 2 gps, not just for Josh's sake. You need to promote new comers to inject new energy to your program, esp. when your top skaters have been the same people for a while.

On the up side, thanks to several rejuvenated veterans and a newbie Gracie Gold, the energy level among US ladies has changed, and I'm getting excited about US ladies again.

I agree. Josh I think could have gotten 2 GPs honestly, between the withdrawals and the fact that Adam, Ross, and Ricky all also only had one guarantee and managed to each get a 2nd. I also wish Messing and Aaron had been more seriously considered for a host spot, or that USFS spread the wealth out at competitions like 4CC more, that way skaters like Keegan and Max could manage to get an ISU SB score so that they could be considered for GPs. It's not that they aren't good enough and can't earn the scores to get them, it's that they haven't competed in events giving SB scores since aging out of juniors!

I have high hopes for Josh. His JGP scores didn't seem that great when he earned them, but it's now November and those numbers are still among the highest any of the other guys have put up on the senior GP events, and with one less element too. Maybe if he can win the JGPF convincingly, a la Dornbush in 2010, USFS will start to take him more seriously and maybe send him to 4CC should he skate well at Nats and land on the podium (or even maybe like 5th or something). He could still do JW afterwards if he wanted to, as well. Kovtun will be steep competition at JGPF, but even if he doesn't hit there, maybe it will mean he'll finally skate well at Nats.

Interested in seeing if anyone puts up exciting numbers at Sectionals this weekend.

I think the frustrating thing with the US men is, there's no shortage of talent, quite the opposite actually, it just seems like the strongest guys at the moment are either inconsistent, have their age working against them physically, still competing on the JGP, or stuck on the senior B circuit due to limited GP and ISU championship spots.

Anyways, not expecting much from Johnny, but I still really like Ricky and hope he can pull up lots in the FS and show his Finlandia FS was not a fluke!

misskarne
11-10-2012, 05:49 AM
I was totally surprised by Dornbush's performance. Everything was going nice, going great, I even kind of liked it and then whoops I just skated off a cliff. Which was a shame. Hope he has a better free skate tonight.

As for Weir, well, uh...I liked the second part of the music? And he still has nice lines and flow.

aftershocks
11-14-2012, 01:01 AM
Who has been named to replace Johnny at TEB?

kwanfan1818
11-14-2012, 01:37 AM
He withdrew a couple of days before the start, and the French Fed is not obligated to fill his spot. They could, but they haven't, at least yet.

Sylvia
11-14-2012, 01:46 AM
Here are the 12 Sectional qualifiers to 2013 Nationals (total scores included):

Easterns 1-4: Stephen Carriere 204.92, Harrison Choate 190.84, Wesley Campbell 189.68, Grant Hochstein 186.48;
Midwesterns 1-4: Max Aaron 233.58, Alexander Johnson 223.18, Brandon Mroz 200.32, William Brewster 171.13;
Pacifics 1-4: Keegan Messing 201.98, Jonathan Cassar 183.00, Philip Warren 180.31, Sean Rabbitt 170.59.

The top 3 Junior Men qualifying scores from Sectionals: 12-year-old Vincent Zhou 196.33, Nathan Chen 193.05 (he omitted 3A & 3Lz from his programs since he is still recovering from his injury), Jordan Moeller 188.70.

pinky166
11-14-2012, 01:54 AM
Max Aaaron's score is really high. And he's shown his 4s and 3a are really consistent. I hope he is seriously considered for Worlds if he skates well at Nats and not kept down in the standings due to politics and PCS inflation for favorites. We really need a guy who can hit the quads and 3as consistently, and most of those considered contenders for the World team have issues with at least one of those jumps if not both. If Max can score like he has been lately, he could be mid-lower top 10 at Worlds and then maybe we could get 3 spots if Abbott or Lysacek could deliver. I even wonder if Max could jump his way on or near the podium in Gatchinski or Brezina-like fashion...

merrywidow
11-14-2012, 05:07 PM
I'm a fan of Max's but I think if he can place in the top 5 at Nationals it will be a great step/jump :encore: forward for him. His style marks will hold him back IMO at 2013 Nat'ls.
He's becoming the most consistent jumper among the US men & I'm excited for him. However, if either Dornbush or Miner can land just one quad in either their sp or lp at Nationals I think they'll place ahead of Aaron. And it goes without saying that if Abbott skates well he will too.

skaters04
11-14-2012, 07:02 PM
At Pacifics, Messing hit a quad toe in his short program (which overall was pretty good), and then did triple axel combo, quad toe and triple lutz in the opening of his free skate, but messed up the landings on all of them (and the lutz was to be a triple-triple). While he "didn't want to make excuses, "he and his coach both acknowledged it was a really bad skate for him, but he he had just returned from Nice about a week ago (where he won with a score about, I think, 15-20 points higher -- which would make sense, because he left at least that many points on the ice with sloppy landings at Pacifics) and he'd been "on the road" for a couple of months and was a bit tired.

Zhou looked really, really good in the junior men's final, very confident, while Chen was very good, too, but did leave out a couple of jumps. But both of them are still VERY tiny -- don't know what they'll be like when they mature more, but both are very confident skaters. Zhou just turned 12 and Chen was 13 in May, so both are quite a ways away from being senior international age eligible.

pinky166
11-14-2012, 07:43 PM
Is Zhou actually that tiny? He looked quite a bit bigger than Chen, who is obviously tiny but also a year and a half older and going through a growthspurt right now, so considering that, Zhou might not actually be that small for his age. Chen is what, 4'9", and Zhou seems a couple inches taller at least, so if he's 4'11" or 5' at barely 12 that's not that small, and he therefore could grow early and be a more normal size/mostly grown in the few years it takes him to become eligible for seniors. Chen was clearly affected by his injury, so Nationals will be interesting, Zhou won here (barely), but we know Chen can do a lot better. Shotaro is also quite strong but didn't skate well at Sectionals. It will be interesting to see who steps up and makes the JW team. I'm also interested to see what happens at the JGPF with Brown and Farris, Yan is not there but Kovtun and Jin have quads.

skaters04
11-15-2012, 05:54 PM
Is Zhou actually that tiny? He looked quite a bit bigger than Chen, who is obviously tiny but also a year and a half older and going through a growthspurt right now, so considering that, Zhou might not actually be that small for his age. Chen is what, 4'9", and Zhou seems a couple inches taller at least, so if he's 4'11" or 5' at barely 12 that's not that small, and he therefore could grow early and be a more normal size/mostly grown in the few years it takes him to become eligible for seniors. Chen was clearly affected by his injury, so Nationals will be interesting, Zhou won here (barely), but we know Chen can do a lot better. Shotaro is also quite strong but didn't skate well at Sectionals. It will be interesting to see who steps up and makes the JW team. I'm also interested to see what happens at the JGPF with Brown and Farris, Yan is not there but Kovtun and Jin have quads.

I talked to Zhou briefly after the event and he said he was 4-9.

pinky166
11-15-2012, 07:49 PM
I talked to Zhou briefly after the event and he said he was 4-9.

Okay so he is tiny. It might have been the costume choice that made him look taller than Chen, or maybe he's just not as skinny in build. Definitely a lot of growing to do for both of them. I hope Nathan's injury heals, apparently the type of injury he has is very painful and can take a while to correct itself? Hope his symptoms aren't too bad!

johnet
11-16-2012, 12:40 AM
I talked to Zhou briefly after the event and he said he was 4-9.

Oh that surprises me a little bit because his personal website listed him as 4'10'' (http://govincentzhou.wordpress.com/profile-4/) and that was updated like months ago, so I kind of figured that he must be a little bit taller than that now.

johnet
11-16-2012, 12:45 AM
Okay so he is tiny. It might have been the costume choice that made him look taller than Chen, or maybe he's just not as skinny in build. Definitely a lot of growing to do for both of them. I hope Nathan's injury heals, apparently the type of injury he has is very painful and can take a while to correct itself? Hope his symptoms aren't too bad!

I remember seeing an update on his website saying that his withdraw was due to an ankle injury which he aggravated just before JGP Croatia. But the message also mentioned he has "Osgood-Chlatter knee pain." But that doesn't seem to be the reason he withdrew. Since in the recent sectional competition he didn't use any of the Lutz jump, I'm guessing he is still recovering from the ankle injury.