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View Full Version : From Russia With Love - Autumn 2012



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Cherub721
11-07-2012, 04:57 PM
I agree with you about their consistantly slow starts being concerning, but the comparision with B/S doing early GPs and skating at Finlandia is a little unfair, firstly because skaters are limited in how much say they get to have over which GPs they are assigned, and secondly there would have been little point in them entering Finlandia, Nebelhorn or the internal Russian competitions this year as Elena was still recovering from her shoulder injury. I believe she was only able to start fully training again in the last month. We will only be able to see if they really are off to another poor start after this weekend.

You're right - I was probably being a bit harsh.

pinky166
11-07-2012, 05:02 PM
I figured Artur's resident hater would turn up.

How about putting yourself under the level of pressure Artur is under (to be the "next Plushenko" - from both himself and the federation...to lead Russian men's skating in Plushenko's place...to redeem his Worlds performance...and so on) and let me know how you get on.

The pressure obviously is a lot, but I do think a sports psychologist could maybe help him. It's not like he's lost his jumps, he can still do the quads and 3a easily, it's just that, he has to keep the rest of the performance together, otherwise he won't score well and will not earn the PCS he deserves when he's skating with conviction. He landed 2 quads in his SC FS and still ended up 9th...clearly, it isn't just about the jumps. Idk what was going on with his 3a being so wonky there, usually it's his money jump, so let's hope those issues are a temporary fluke, but he can't just give away points with careless mistakes and uninspired skating like that. He seemed depressed or really discouraged, he is a good skater, he knows the judges won't hesitate to give him good scores when he skates well, he's still a teenager and has already medaled at Worlds and Europeans, seems to me he just needs a push or influx of motivation of some sort to get his spark back. It's still early, and maybe with the mega scores being earned by the likes of Hanyu and Fernandez (both around his age) recently, how Patrick Chan continues to score well for terrible performances (like at SC - I'm sorry but that FS was a mess), Plushenko and others like Lysacek making comebacks, and Kovtun tearing up the JGP and gaining lots of attention as the next star, he just feels kind of lost in the shuffle and like the odds are against him.

VarBar
11-07-2012, 06:13 PM
It's still early, and maybe with the mega scores being earned by the likes of Hanyu and Fernandez (both around his age) recently, how Patrick Chan continues to score well for terrible performances (like at SC - I'm sorry but that FS was a mess), Plushenko and others like Lysacek making comebacks, and Kovtun tearing up the JGP and gaining lots of attention as the next star, he just feels kind of lost in the shuffle and like the odds are against him.

Takahashi's free skate at Cup of China was an even bigger mess than Chan's at Skate Canada, up to Takahashi looking labored and quite overpowered by the music but he still scored pretty high on the components and I have this feeling he will continue to score high, mistakes or no mistakes.

What I think that affected Artur's PCS at SC apart from the missed jumps and his slowness was that he skated on two feet for most of his long program, as well as the obvious - to me - lack of valuable transitions.

I see more modern skating in Kovtun than Artur these days. I am not an Artur hater and I had high hopes for him this season with new choreographies.

caseyedwards
11-07-2012, 07:49 PM
For most of the preseason gachinski had 3a but not quad and he goes to Canada and basically no 3a but quad. Sports psychologist is an obvious investment that should be made. Worlds 2011 was despite low pcs and all jumps so he knows no mistake is possible ever on a jump for success internationally.

love_skate2011
11-07-2012, 09:07 PM
I think Menshov will finish higher than Gachinski at CoR

I hope Martiusheva/Rogonov have a decent skate
she's landing throws but I don't want too see them getting a fluke fall going in to a death spiral :yikes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiJs0geWWNQ&feature=plcp

Marco
11-08-2012, 02:48 AM
What I think that affected Artur's PCS at SC apart from the missed jumps and his slowness was that he skated on two feet for most of his long program, as well as the obvious - to me - lack of valuable transitions.

Hasn't this always been the case for him though? His skating is very Russian - just focused on the jumps and some on showmanship, but he never does much with his blades or with the music. I would hate to be labelled as a hater but I truly do not see what is so good about his sakting that got him the high PCS to medal at Euros and Worlds. Would someone please enlighten me?

Kasey
11-08-2012, 02:51 AM
I would hate to be labelled as a hater but I truly do not see what is so good about his sakting that got him the high PCS to medal at Euros and Worlds. Would someone please enlighten me?

Other skaters sucked out loud?? Nothing really special about him that I can see, other than his ability to elicit, uhm, STRONG reactions by certain "fans" when anything remotely critical is posted about him? (Hmm, that would actually put him on par with Weir, Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, etc....maybe he IS better than I thought ;) )

hanca
11-08-2012, 10:09 AM
OMG, Martiusheva and Rogonov!!! Two freaky falls that could have been avoided. What is going on with them? :eek: I really like this pair, but the competition just a few days ago shows that they skate worse than ever! (Usually she struggles with jumps. Here she doubled, but lands throw jump. But the fall on nothing and another one on death spiral!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCyKL0OzzII&feature=plcp

Jeschke
11-08-2012, 11:06 AM
OMG, Martiusheva and Rogonov!!! I really like this pair, but the competition just a few days ago shows that they skate worse than ever!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCyKL0OzzII&feature=plcp

Worse than ever? Please come on. there were times in the past few years, where she hits the ice almost at every jump (even a double and most of the throws)
the throw was cleanly landed.
her double sal, okay, we have seen that many times, youīre right

but the mistake at the beginning and the death spiral? come on, such mistakes happens to you once or twice during your career and now it happend to them. remember savchenko/szolkowy with their olympic program at teb 2009? few weeks later they bounced back.

i agree that a skate lake that donīt give too much confidence for rostelecom cup, but letīs wait and judge until then. now itīs time for them to prove on the big stage.

love_skate2011
11-08-2012, 11:09 AM
OMG, Martiusheva and Rogonov!!! Two freaky falls that could have been avoided. What is going on with them? :eek: I really like this pair, but the competition just a few days ago shows that they skate worse than ever! (Usually she struggles with jumps. Here she doubled, but lands throw jump. But the fall on nothing and another one on death spiral!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCyKL0OzzII&feature=plcp

this was at Cup of Russia III I think a week ago ? , they placed 2nd, I posted it above
I hope those freak falls wont happen especially that fluke on the death spiral
landing of throws looked improved

hanca
11-08-2012, 11:23 AM
Worse than ever? Please come on. there were times in the past few years, where she hits the ice almost at every jump (even a double and most of the throws)
the throw was cleanly landed.
her double sal, okay, we have seen that many times, youīre right

but the mistake at the beginning and the death spiral? come on, such mistakes happens to you once or twice during your career and now it happend to them. remember savchenko/szolkowy with their olympic program at teb 2009? few weeks later they bounced back.

i agree that a skate lake that donīt give too much confidence for rostelecom cup, but letīs wait and judge until then. now itīs time for them to prove on the big stage.


This is worse than ever. She usually falls on jumps and throw jumps. Her throw jumps seem to be solid in this competition, her side by side jumps are bad but that's pretty normal for them. But usually she doesn't fall on transitions. In this competition she fell three times on non-jump elements and transitions, twice in the SP and once in the FS. Once while doing completely nothing, she tripped over her toe picks - that's not her usual skating. Then she trips again over her toe pick while getting ready for death spiral (in the SP)... How long has she been doing death spirals? That's a mistake that should have been avoided. You can have one freaky fall, but two in the same program? What is going on? Two falls in the SP on non-jump element? And then again in the FS messing up again death spiral (different one than in the SP). If you are saying that this is not worse than ever, please find me a link with their program where she keeps falling on other non jump elements. Unfortunately jumps are generally not her strong point, but the rest must be solid if she wants to get away with not landing jumps, otherwise where are they going to earn the points?

Jeschke
11-08-2012, 11:55 AM
This is worse than ever. She usually falls on jumps and throw jumps. Her throw jumps seem to be solid in this competition, her side by side jumps are bad but that's pretty normal for them. But usually she doesn't fall on transitions. In this competition she fell three times on non-jump elements and transitions, twice in the SP and once in the FS. Once while doing completely nothing, she tripped over her toe picks - that's not her usual skating. Then she trips again over her toe pick while getting ready for death spiral (in the SP)... How long has she been doing death spirals? That's a mistake that should have been avoided. You can have one freaky fall, but two in the same program? What is going on? Two falls in the SP on non-jump element? And then again in the FS messing up again death spiral (different one than in the SP). If you are saying that this is not worse than ever, please find me a link with their program where she keeps falling on other non jump elements. Unfortunately jumps are generally not her strong point, but the rest must be solid if she wants to get away with not landing jumps, otherwise where are they going to earn the points?

i once more refer to savchenko/szolkowys free skate at teb2009 in relation to the freaky fall question.

i agree i what you said about, if sheīs having her usual problems with jumps, the rest should be solid and okay.
i didnīt know there was such a mistake again in the free skate.
for me, i rather prefer her having solid landings on the throw jumps (which wasnīt the case in earlier times) and hoping the freaky falls just WERE freaky falls in a freaky competition for them and nothing which gives a statement about their current status.

weīve just another point of perspective and for me (as a supporter of the team) i just hope they can put two solid programs at RC and this old competetion just was a bad bad bad experience.

Fashionista
11-08-2012, 07:46 PM
You can have one freaky fall, but two in the same program?

Talk about it with Charlie White:)

hanca
11-08-2012, 07:52 PM
I know that one fall can be perceived as freaky fall, but we are talking about three falls within two programs. Each of the programs would have been on a different day, so you can't even say 'bad day'. I really like M&R, but watching that was shortening my life! (If at least the jumps were solid then, but she did not land her side by side jumps either. She did have solid throw jumps, at least that worked.)

Cherub721
11-08-2012, 08:17 PM
I get what you're saying, hanca. Anastasia struggles with the jumps, everyone knows that. But when pairs struggle with jumps, you sort of expect them to do very well in the other elements to make up for that. I didn't watch the vid, but M&R are usually a very elegant couple, so I can see how 3 falls would be extremely disruptive and make one think "great, now I have to worry that even if by some miracle she lands all the jumps, the program could still be a mess."