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MarieM
11-07-2012, 09:27 AM
Nah - they were already making so many excuses about how bad of a coach Zhulin was. Now they can't make excuses.
As for the program being weak in transitions, I am more worried about the fact that they still don't seem to be able to handle it. They don't have the stamina to keep the program going in this state so why should Morozov put in transitions which would make them look even worse?

They were not making excuses. Everyone around them (families, russian federation, people I don't know about) was doing that, because everyone knew this team is the raw talent and had that star quality, that russian ice dancers have lost in the last ten years.
Problem is, they lost that quality by going to Morozov, who, although he was kind of brilliant as an ice dancer, can't seem to train them well. They lack in everything they were known for with that craptastic program.
Their lifts haven't improved, their steps are not clean, and it's a step forward from last year's program where, at least, they were challenging themselves.
It looks like they haven't work their ass off.

Zhulin will never take them back. I doubt they have any choice left as of now but to stick with Morozov unless the Russian Fed makes Krylova take them.

love_skate2011
11-07-2012, 09:55 AM
but there is some info about Artur as well.

Here we are:
- Alexei Nikolaevich, how does Artur Gachinski’s training for Cup of Russia go?
- After Grand Prix in Canada Artur underwent a thorough medical check-up and, in compliance with the expert’s conclusion, we had to lower his physical workload. It seems to me the recent trainings show that policy will bring its results. Already now Gachinski makes an impression more energetic and rich in movements.

- What was the doctors’ diagnosis?
- Nervous tension and the weakening of immune system. I think it isn’t mortal. We take doctors’ recomendations to consideration and take a number of allowed pharmacological remedies to normalize his psycological and functional state.

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Just as I suspected, Gachinski has nerve issues when competing
and needs psychological help, he just doesnt have the nerves like Plushy and even Tuk's

rayhaneh
11-07-2012, 10:00 AM
Just as I suspected, Gachinski has nerve issues when competing
and needs psychological help, he just doesnt have the nerves like Plushy and even Tuk's

Then again, how many skaters have nerves of steel the way Plushenko does?

He may be inconsistent but still manages to get his act together on occasions. That's more than can be said for a lot of the Russian men....

love_skate2011
11-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Then again, how many skaters have nerves of steel the way Plushenko does?

He may be inconsistent but still manages to get his act together on occasions. That's more than can be said for a lot of the Russian men....


he is getting too inconsistent
his last good skate was at Euros, his scores now is in 190+ range. I bet he will finish at the bottom of the men in CoR

Macassar88
11-07-2012, 11:01 AM
They were not making excuses. Everyone around them (families, russian federation, people I don't know about) was doing that, because everyone knew this team is the raw talent and had that star quality, that russian ice dancers have lost in the last ten years.
Problem is, they lost that quality by going to Morozov, who, although he was kind of brilliant as an ice dancer, can't seem to train them well. They lack in everything they were known for with that craptastic program.
Their lifts haven't improved, their steps are not clean, and it's a step forward from last year's program where, at least, they were challenging themselves.
It looks like they haven't work their ass off.

Zhulin will never take them back. I doubt they have any choice left as of now but to stick with Morozov unless the Russian Fed makes Krylova take them.

Zhulin told them the first time he took them back that if they left again, it would be the end forever.
And I don't think that Krylova would ever take them. She has enough teams as it is, and she doesn't have any top Russian teams, so the Russian fed can't threaten to take anyone away from her. And Ilinykh and Katsalapov won't leave Morozov as long as Morozov and Ilinykh are dating.

And they were making excuses - they kept talking about how they got zero attention from Zhulin and how he wasn't ever around to teach them which is why they didn't make progress.

Also, while I agree with you that Morozov isn't a great coach, it isn't like Ilinykh and Katsalapov are doing much on their own. They do just as bad of a job performing his material as he does coming up with it.

Although I also feel like the bombastic nature of their FD is meant to distract from the fact that they haven't made any improvements. People are so focused on the gun shots that fewer people are talking about the fact that there aren't any transitions and that they don't keep the performance level up by the halfway point of the program.

misskarne
11-07-2012, 11:10 AM
Just as I suspected, Gachinski has nerve issues when competing
and needs psychological help, he just doesnt have the nerves like Plushy and even Tuk's

I figured Artur's resident hater would turn up.

How about putting yourself under the level of pressure Artur is under (to be the "next Plushenko" - from both himself and the federation...to lead Russian men's skating in Plushenko's place...to redeem his Worlds performance...and so on) and let me know how you get on.

misskarne
11-07-2012, 11:11 AM
he is getting too inconsistent
his last good skate was at Euros, his scores now is in 190+ range. I bet he will finish at the bottom of the men in CoR

:rolleyes:

Oh yes, Euros. That was so long ago! Years and years and years and years...oh wait. Sorry, it was only two competitions ago.

Zemgirl
11-07-2012, 02:10 PM
I/K free dance from Crystal Skate competition last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfOiZRQOh6Q
I finally got around to watching it, and I think it might be better if Morozov just sticks with his usual CD in the future.

robinhood
11-07-2012, 02:35 PM
Does anyone know what are the dialogues in I/K program? Is it the part of the film by Demi Moore?

MarieM
11-07-2012, 03:23 PM
:rolleyes:

Oh yes, Euros. That was so long ago! Years and years and years and years...oh wait. Sorry, it was only two competitions ago.

The problem isn't the music.
The problem is everything else : the composition, the elements, the non existent transition, even the skating that hasn't shown as much progress as Bobrova/Soloviev. Even with music everyone can forget, last year's program wasn't as bad as was told. At least the elements (steps, spins, composition of the elements and transitions) were very neatly put together.
But what we've seen so far is a badly put together program. Even the lifts haven't progressed one bit and it's not Zhulin's fault anymore, so whose fault is it ?

Cherub721
11-07-2012, 03:36 PM
Even the lifts haven't progressed one bit and it's not Zhulin's fault anymore, so whose fault is it ?

CoP? :rofl: ITA with everything you said.


Does anyone know what are the dialogues in I/K program? Is it the part of the film by Demi Moore?

Even "better": it's from the new musical version of Ghost that was on Broadway.


Although I also feel like the bombastic nature of their FD is meant to distract from the fact that they haven't made any improvements. People are so focused on the gun shots that fewer people are talking about the fact that there aren't any transitions and that they don't keep the performance level up by the halfway point of the program.

Good point. While it is early in the season and I expect their conditioning to improve to a degree, their late starts are becoming a problem. I'm happy they at least did a tune up event which they didn't the past two years, but it was scheduled very late. By the time they were debuting their programs, B&S for example were skating in their 3rd international and locking up their spot in the GP Final (and I believe they did internal Russian competitions and test skates as well). It's always this way, I&K start out slowly, and then by Euros they have decent skates, but never really great ones. There is hardly time to make changes between Crystal Skate and CoR, so what is really the point? And the way they withdrew from Cup of Nice, and switched to Crystal Skate where they got ridiculous scores seems fishy somehow... like Morozov had a friend on the panel or something. And both of those choices are really low-level events where they wouldn't face any competition, compared to events like Nebelhorn and Finlandia. I just feel like they aren't challenging themselves whatsoever and if Morozov is saying they need to be fighting for the podium at Worlds, this is not good strategy.

The idea of them with Krylova is interesting. As we've discussed before IMO they need a coach who is a strong disciplinarian. She's still pretty young, and her top teams have been P&B and W&P who are mature, hard-working, and I think realize how lucky they are to get the opportunity to work with her. I don't know how she would deal with I&K.

Evilynn
11-07-2012, 03:38 PM
Does anyone know what are the dialogues in I/K program? Is it the part of the film by Demi Moore?

I assume it's from the musical, since that's the music they're using?

love_skate2011
11-07-2012, 03:47 PM
I figured Artur's resident hater would turn up.

How about putting yourself under the level of pressure Artur is under (to be the "next Plushenko" - from both himself and the federation...to lead Russian men's skating in Plushenko's place...to redeem his Worlds performance...and so on) and let me know how you get on.

:confused: Im not a hater just being realistic

and Gachinski being beaten by the likes of a Voronov and Menshov :blah:
I doubt he is that pressured to be the " Next Plushenko ", the younger juniors are more promising

I bet Kovtun or even the younger kids like Petrov and Samarin will do better and Gachinski will be dumped once these 3
turn seniors for 2018

morqet
11-07-2012, 04:46 PM
Good point. While it is early in the season and I expect their conditioning to improve to a degree, their late starts are becoming a problem. I'm happy they at least did a tune up event which they didn't the past two years, but it was scheduled very late. By the time they were debuting their programs, B&S for example were skating in their 3rd international and locking up their spot in the GP Final (and I believe they did internal Russian competitions and test skates as well).

[...]

And both of those choices are really low-level events where they wouldn't face any competition, compared to events like Nebelhorn and Finlandia. I just feel like they aren't challenging themselves whatsoever and if Morozov is saying they need to be fighting for the podium at Worlds, this is not good strategy.



I agree with you about their consistantly slow starts being concerning, but the comparision with B/S doing early GPs and skating at Finlandia is a little unfair, firstly because skaters are limited in how much say they get to have over which GPs they are assigned, and secondly there would have been little point in them entering Finlandia, Nebelhorn or the internal Russian competitions this year as Elena was still recovering from her shoulder injury. I believe she was only able to start fully training again in the last month. We will only be able to see if they really are off to another poor start after this weekend.

Glacier cat
11-07-2012, 04:51 PM
:rolleyes:

Oh yes, Euros. That was so long ago! Years and years and years and years...oh wait. Sorry, it was only two competitions ago.

Only 2 competitions ago, and even now he isn't getting back in his real strength yet. I hope he will stand on the podium at CoR or NRW. He needs to win for recovering fully. I mean, mentally.