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love_skate2011
10-12-2012, 01:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEC2mIs4VIk&feature=plcp
Tuk's FS!

she doubled her 3R ?

but still commendable she had no falls considering she was injured
I was never that worried about her or Julia, they seem to have the mental strength unlike Adelina who I'm sorry to say is the weakest of the three mentally :(

Macassar88
10-12-2012, 01:04 PM
she doubled her 3R ?

but still commendable she had no falls considering she was injured
I was never that worried about her or Julia, they seem to have the mental strength unlike Adelina who I'm sorry to say is the weakest of the three mentally :(

Yeah doubled the 3R and omitted the three jump combo

love_skate2011
10-12-2012, 01:07 PM
Yeah doubled the 3R and omitted the three jump combo

No 3-3 I don't think she can win Skate Canada, Gold is probably a lock,
but she could still podium :cheer2: with Akiko

Macassar88
10-12-2012, 01:15 PM
No 3-3 I don't think she can win Skate Canada, Gold is probably a lock,
but she could still podium :cheer2: with Akiko

You think that Gracie will beat Tuk? I'm not sure - I haven't seen Gracie's programs this year.

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKXLDAyrfh4&feature=plcp
Stepanova and Bukin's SD - they changed the lift to something less attractive that still gets them level 4
Level 3 on steps and on patterns and twizzles - level 4 on everything else

Domshabfan
10-12-2012, 01:23 PM
You think that Gracie will beat Tuk? I'm not sure - I haven't seen Gracie's programs this year.


Liza can still do 7 triples routine if she changes her 2A at the end of the program for 3T, since she is already doing 2A+3T. On top of that Liza already does a 3T+3T in the SP. Though she would have to land at least 6 triples to win. I have to see Gold perform again since Gold did falter in her international senior debut last year. I think both the girls will have to go clean for any chance to win the title.

Macassar88
10-12-2012, 01:45 PM
Liza can still do 7 triples routine if she changes her 2A at the end of the program for 3T, since she is already doing 2A+3T. On top of that Liza already does a 3T+3T in the SP. Though she would have to land at least 6 triples to win. I have to see Gold perform again since Gold did falter in her international senior debut last year. I think both the girls will have to go clean for any chance to win the title.

To be fair, Gold had to add 30 seconds to her program between JW and WTT
Anyway, I think that Liza will go back to her normal jump content eventually
(3Lz-3T, 3F, 3Lo, 2A-3T, 3S-2T-2Lo, 2A) and maybe add a triple axel some time.

Jammers
10-12-2012, 05:20 PM
she doubled her 3R ?

but still commendable she had no falls considering she was injured
I was never that worried about her or Julia, they seem to have the mental strength unlike Adelina who I'm sorry to say is the weakest of the three mentally :(

Julia hasn't gone through the growth spurts that Adelina for instance has gone through. Next year might be her year to have to struggle because right now she's still tiny. That won't last.

love_skate2011
10-12-2012, 05:32 PM
Julia hasn't gone through the growth spurts that Adelina for instance has gone through. Next year might be her year to have to struggle because right now she's still tiny. That won't last.

Julia is growing already in cms, her coach even mentions in interview and Julia said herself in her sparshavai

mental fortitude I think cannot be taught though, consistency is what makes winners which I'm afraid Adelina doesn't have atm ( most will agree Adelina is the most beatable of the three), Tuk is growing right now but she has handled it better than Adelina last season

Macassar88
10-12-2012, 05:49 PM
Julia is growing already in cms, her coach even mentions in interview and Julia said herself in her sparshavai

mental fortitude I think cannot be taught though, consistency is what makes winners which I'm afraid Adelina doesn't have atm ( most will agree Adelina is the most beatable of the three), Tuk is growing right now but she has handled it better than Adelina last season

The thing is that Tuk has the best technique on jumps, so she's likely to be the one to survive puberty out of the three if only one can.

love_skate2011
10-12-2012, 05:58 PM
The thing is that Tuk has the best technique on jumps, so she's likely to be the one to survive puberty out of the three if only one can.

Technique alone won't help if you are not mentally tough
Adelina had good technique too other than her flutz, Julia has good technique
also besides her flutz and 2A, her jumps actually got bigger this season. Radionova has very clean edges although sometimes her landings can be clunky

what separates Tuk and Julia imo are they just have more toughness, If you look even in 2009 videos, Julia rarely even falls on her jumps.

Adelina needs some sort of psychologist, she suffers the same with Kanako
they usually crumble at Free Skates

there are many elite skaters than have not so good technique yet are successful because of consistency Lysacek or Lambiel ?

Maofan7
10-12-2012, 08:47 PM
I thought it was an excellent free skate from Liza given that it was her season debut and that she has only just returned from a knee injury. She has obviously been off the ice for a while and lost some training time as a result. The competition she was up against was not that tough, and she was obviously using the event as a warm up for Skate Canada and was getting rid of some rust. When you look at the SP and LP together, all of the jumps are there - 3Z, 3F, 2A, 3S, 3R, 3T. She landed them all. She obviously went out with the intention of just doing a 3Zx2T combination, but she certainly looked as though she could have done the 3Zx3T if she had wanted to. However, given the nature of the competition she was up against, she simply did not need it. Moreover, she showed in the SP, that she has the 3Tx3T as a back up. Yes, she doubled out on the 3R in the LP, but she landed a very good one in the SP. The only other minor error was that she missed the final element of her 3Sx2Tx2R combination. However, she can do that combination normally in her sleep. All in all, therefore, a very good season debut.


No 3-3 I don't think she can win Skate Canada, Gold is probably a lock,
but she could still podium :cheer2: with Akiko

Did you see Gracie Gold at the International Figure Skating Classic and Skate Detroit? She struggled in both events, losing to Agnes Zawadzki and Hannah Miller respectively. Both Gracie and Liza have had their problems and its far too early in the season to be making predictions. Both, however, have shown good potential despite their problems.

Ziggy
10-12-2012, 09:07 PM
mental fortitude I think cannot be taught though

It most definitely can.

triple_toe
10-12-2012, 09:30 PM
It can certain be improved but no matter how many sessions with a sports psych you have, some people will always be an Czisny, not a Kwan. That's not to say nervous skaters won't have magnificent skates, but they will never have that internal love for competition. It'll always be more about calming down and controlling nerves instead of thriving on the pressure.

Ziggy
10-12-2012, 09:40 PM
It can certain be improved but no matter how many sessions with a sports psych you have, some people will always be an Czisny, not a Kwan.

And some skaters will learn triple jumps easily and for others it will be an extremely tough ordeal. Some skater have an affinity for spinning, others hate it because it makes them dizzy.

You might be predisposed more or less to a certain activity. But that does not mean that you aren't able to acquire the relevant skillset.

And none of us actually know what is going on in Czisny's and Kwan's heads. How much of their success/failure was down to environmental and how much to personal factors. How much they did or didn't work on their mental skills, whether in a formal or an informal setting. And how much of their success is down to good/bad coaching.

As far as Czisny is concerned, I'd guess that technical issues play a very big role. She has always had horrific jumping technique. It has been slightly corrected but is still terrible. Pretty hard to land jumps consistently when even at her 100%, they are rather :scream:.

Most people seem to perceive physical fortitude as something that can be easily trained with enough effort but they don't perceive mental fortitude in the same way, when exactly the same logic applies there as well.

jdonavan
10-12-2012, 10:01 PM
And some skaters will learn triple jumps easily and for others it will be an extremely tough ordeal. Some skater have an affinity for spinning, others hate it because it makes them dizzy.

You might be predisposed more or less to a certain activity. But that does not mean that you aren't able to acquire the relevant skillset.

And none of us actually know what is going on in Czisny's and Kwan's heads. How much of their success/failure was down to environmental and how much to personal factors. How much they did or didn't work on their mental skills, whether in a formal or an informal setting. And how much of their success is down to good/bad coaching.

As far as Czisny is concerned, I'd guess that technical issues play a very big role. She has always had horrific jumping technique. It has been slightly corrected but is still terrible. Pretty hard to land jumps consistently when even at her 100%, they are rather :scream:.

Most people seem to perceive physical fortitude as something that can be easily trained with enough effort but they don't perceive mental fortitude in the same way, when exactly the same logic applies there as well.

I disagree with your estimation that the career of the athlete falls on the shoulders of the coach. Skaters at some point need to take responsibility for their performances. Abbot, Rippon and Czisny have all had numerous coaches, but the issues remain the same. You can lead a horse to water but you cant force it to drink.


Her technique isnt that off actually IMO - the axel is the worst