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View Full Version : Patrick Chan embarks on season with new coach, choreographers and two new programs



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Zemgirl
09-30-2012, 02:04 PM
Any performance has two ways to reach the audience.
Drawing the audience in or reaching out to the audience.
...
Reaching out is what entertainers do but artists draw you in.

Actually, I'd argue that artists can do both and that this sort of flexibility and versatility is part of what makes them artists.


The Chan versus Taka debates are unfair as you are comparing a 21 year old Chan with a 26 year old Taka. 5 extra years of skating, studying movement expression etc are bound to develop a recognizable style. Patrick is in the development stage of his own style. That is why he has made a monumental move this year working with different choreographers exploring different styles and nuances in music.
You can also compare where Chan is now compared to where Takahashi was at the same age, with the caveat that the judging was a bit different back then. I'm not that big of a fan of Dai's, and I absolutely agree that he's developed a fair bit in the years since - but I still think the comparison would be favorable to him. In terms of technical ability and progress with that aspect, that's a different discussion.

ks1227
10-01-2012, 06:12 AM
Kozuka has good basics, good timing but zero style and looks like he couldn't care less when he is skating. Which is a real shame because it's a total waste of his abilities. And he does get hammered on the PCS as well.


I usually respect your comments on figure skating a lot but this is just :rolleyes: .

t.mann
10-01-2012, 06:59 AM
Actually, I'd argue that artists can do both and that this sort of flexibility and versatility is part of what makes them artists.

ITA.

tkaug
10-01-2012, 09:01 AM
It is a good progress for him that he finally stopped using the same programs this as he used in the previous season. That was really limiting his eagerness for showing different styles of his performances. I hear it was because of a financial problem but there's no way that a world champion can't skate to new programs each season. I was really having enough of seeing him skate to the same music for 2 seasons, even after becoming a world champion. No problem with that as long as that program suits him really well and we enjoy watching it, but unfortunately, he is not a skater for me to remember by the music that he skates to.

Japanfan
10-01-2012, 09:10 AM
I hear it was because of a financial problem but there's no way that a world champion can't skate to new programs each season. I was really having enough of seeing him skate to the same music for 2 seasons, even after becoming a world champion. No problem with that as long as that program suits him really well and we enjoy watching it, but unfortunately, he is not a skater for me to remember by the music that he skates to.

I don't think it was for financial reasons. I think it was because his programs are so difficult and complex that a) it is hard to master two new programs in a season and b) he wants to give the programs more time to evolve. Most likely a) was more important than b).

I was okay with the long programs he kept but did get weary of Take Five in its second season.

I wonder if he is going to do another two programs for the Olympic season? Or is 'Elegy' going to be a keeper - one you want to see two seasons running?

tkaug
10-01-2012, 09:23 AM
I don't think it was for financial reasons. I think it was because his programs are so difficult and complex that a) it is hard to master two new programs in a season and b) he wants to give the programs more time to evolve. Most likely a) was more important than b).

As you say, I've also heard that was because it was difficult for him to change both programs, but I just don't understand. Many other skaters do that and why can't he? What is the point that he skates to the same music again that made him a world champion? This is nothing challenging to do even if he puts more difficult technical contents. If he wants to put more difficult technical contents, he can do it for a new program.

The Accordion
10-01-2012, 08:37 PM
Chan's programs are much more complicated than many other skaters and each season he has been adding jump arsenault as well. In addition - he is not the only skater to do this - and definitely not the only World Champion. Didn't Viktor Petrenko use one program 3 years in a row? And that was way before all the difficult transitions and levels of COP.
Personally I am grateful that Chan kept some of his programs for 2 years to have had the chance to see what they became after the mileage he had on them - but to each their own for sure.

Emdee
10-01-2012, 09:21 PM
Accordion I agree about POTO as this changed radically in year 2 but I still think that Take 5 got a bit stale ... even for Patrick.

Rock2
10-01-2012, 10:27 PM
That's not oversimplifying the way marks are awarded, since most of the PCS are anchored to the SS mark and not that many at the senior level at any rank receive other PCS with a variance of more than a point of that mark or 1.25-1.5 from highest to lowest. If SS are tied to jump content, then PCS are even further in the direction of rewarding the technical.

Don't you just love a good, narrow corridor?

Totally hear you.

I was talking to a lower level (not quite nationals) US judge a few years ago at a comp and they tested switching the PCS ordering around...so SS is not the first mark given. Not sure how scientific the study was done but they concluded the marks came out way different on PCS side.

This is a problem of any judging system past or present because judges can lose their credentials if they consistently vary to the average or median mark. So, it causes a dynamic where judges are scoring "what they think everyone else will give that skater". THAT's the big issue.

Japanfan
10-01-2012, 11:47 PM
As you say, I've also heard that was because it was difficult for him to change both programs, but I just don't understand. Many other skaters do that and why can't he? What is the point that he skates to the same music again that made him a world champion? This is nothing challenging to do even if he puts more difficult technical contents. If he wants to put more difficult technical contents, he can do it for a new program.

It's always challenging to skate a program well, especially when the technical content is difficult - and 3 quads in two programs is difficult.

Patrick did really well when he introduced the quad to his arsenal - there are many skaters who introduce it, never master it, and lose it. Or, their artistry suffers because of the focus on the quad. That shows just how difficult it is to introduce the quad to competition. 3A is the same for those who are new to the jump.

And these skaters aren't doing level 4 footwork.