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View Full Version : Patrick Chan embarks on season with new coach, choreographers and two new programs



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VarBar
09-16-2012, 11:24 PM
Daisuke Takahashi - The Eye (2010 Olympic SP).

I'm such a disgrace, I didn't know Miyamoto choreographed that SP for Takahashi. I'm not a fan of busy/flashy costumes or crazy hairstyles in athletes but that program was terrific by all means, a real joy to watch.:)

Thanks, Ziggy.


According to his mother, whom I had conversation with, modern dance movements from Johnson, who was a graduate of Julliard School,and wrote books on dance Biomechanics?, helped Patrick to improve on traditonal Jump technics, and the Krall system of Jump Teacher, audio visual on screen, was over exaggerated. The muscles used in modern dance movements, are used and applied in skating jumps and movements, and that helped Patrick a lot.;)

I'm not arguing Johnson wouldn't have helped Patrick improve his technique on the jumps but I'd still feel more relaxed if I knew he had a technical coach the old-school way. Maybe I'm wrong to worry though.

Ziggy
09-16-2012, 11:49 PM
I'm not arguing Johnson wouldn't have helped Patrick improve his technique on the jumps but I'd still feel more relaxed if I knew he had a technical coach the old-school way. Maybe I'm wrong to worry though.

Yes, definitely this.

Whilst it's very interesting to hear about Johnson's research into biomechanics and whilst that knowledge will surely help Chan, jumps and skating in general also - and even more so - relies on edges. You need to have a coach who can give you that input as well.

jettasian
09-17-2012, 04:28 AM
I've been moved by performances of Takahashi, Abbott, Hanyu, and many other men, but never by Chan's. I've never liked his performances so I want to watch them again and again. When it comes to his programs, it's always about techniches or scoring and I don't see much about the relationship to the music in his programs. In fact, I haven't heard so much about the music itself from him that he chooses to skate to. Admitting he deserves the best marks on SS and TR, but I just don't understand that he gets the best marks on CH and IN.

Very subjective. I love all Chan's programs...all of the movements, little movements...it's more than just technical stuff. And everyone's skating is about scoring. It's a competition, not Stars on Ice.

jettasian
09-17-2012, 04:31 AM
I do not think many people don't find him moving, but it is a fact that he's overscored in PCS. The audience's booing when his scores were announced in the Worlds 2012 proves it all. Also many commentators from many countries said he didn't deserve to win.

It's just WRONG that he got the highest mark, 9.0's in PE and IN with a fall like that and a time violation because of being late to the music.

He got penalties for all his mistakes. Other skaters didn't skate well either. Overall, his program was still the hardest among all other competitors.

jettasian
09-17-2012, 04:40 AM
When you look at Takahashi, his body movement is incredibly detailed, he has lot of little choreographic touches and he is utilising his whole body throughout his programs, moving it very fluidly, and just he oozes expression. His movement is very soft and cat-like.

Chan does technically skate to the music but I find him missing the above qualities. Well maybe not missing but he's not on Dai's level.


I disagree completely. Chan has so many small elements that other skaters don't have. I'm not an expert, but Tracey Wilson sometimes point out the very simple stuff that he has in his skates that separate him for others.

I do not find Dai's busy hand movements are anything other than busy hand movements. I sometimes find his hands move more than his feet. And this is about skating, not sign language competition.



Also, there are some skaters who have very distinct styles or who always show something strong conceptually, that stands out. Chan "just" shows very good craftsmanship.



He is probably the most skilled male skater to have ever competed, I just wish his programs were more daring and original.

Very distinct styles are subjective. Some may find someone like Weir's style is distinctive...but after watching year after year, it's same old same old. Amodio is the same, always dramatic. Dai use the same type of music ALL THE TIME. Jourber's techno forever.... I find Chan has more variety than these skaters.


As I've written above, Chan's style just isn't as flashy as Takahashi's or Abbott's - to give two examples - but he does tick most of the PCS boxes.

Flashy means nothing other than just flashy. Chan's more subtle...but that doesn't mean his has no style nor distinctive.

jettasian
09-17-2012, 04:44 AM
Though I really cannot imagine Patrick skating to a Michael Jackson! But there are some skaters who may pull this off ... like Daisuke, Florent and even Weir. :D

Different people have different style. True, Chan may not look well skating to MJ's music because he's more classical and subtle instead of "flashy". I don't see Dai or Jourbert look well for classical either. It's just different style. For some to say that because Chan's not "flashy" enough, he is lack of style is crazy.

kwanfan1818
09-17-2012, 04:45 AM
It's a competition, not Stars on Ice.
It's a)so not an elements+skating skills competition. There are PCS that cover movement, choreography, musical interpretation, and engagement (however stupidly it's worded.)

It's not as if Chan's main competition is performing 2A, 3T, 3S, and L1 spins.

It is possible to appreciate what Chan, and Abbott and Takahashi et al bring to skating.

jettasian
09-17-2012, 04:51 AM
While I am ready to admit to Chan's inferiority to other skaters in terms of how he expresses the music, I wouldn't trade his incredibly effortless skating/edging and fluid movement over the ice for anything of what other men have to offer to the sport even though. I'm well aware that Chan's brilliant skating qualities will probably never get the same recognition from fs fans as the drama or theatrics other men are so able to display in their performances on the ice.

Those fans seem to confuse with competition skating and exhibition/show skating.



I'd just like Chan to learn to stay focused all throughout his programs, I mean he lands two gorgeous quadruple jumps, a solid 3A or a most amazing second 3Lz right in the middle of the rink with one of the most difficult entries into the jump one can think of but he falls on a stupid double A. Don't you just want to strangle him with your bare hands?:lol:

All these qualities are NOT enough...cause he didn't make some sad faces, or fling his arms in the air.

jettasian
09-17-2012, 04:53 AM
It's a)so not an elements+skating skills competition. There are PCS that cover movement, choreography, musical interpretation, and engagement (however stupidly it's worded.)

It's not as if Chan's main competition is performing 2A, 3T, 3S, and L1 spins.

It is possible to appreciate what Chan, and Abbott and Takahashi et al bring to skating.

Yes, and Chan has all of those elements as well. It's just some like to think that although he's technically sounded....all of his other elements are not up there to the like of Abbott or Dai.

Ziggy
09-17-2012, 05:31 AM
I disagree completely. Chan has so many small elements that other skaters don't have. I'm not an expert, but Tracey Wilson sometimes point out the very simple stuff that he has in his skates that separate him for others.

In terms of skating, yes. I was talking about upper body movement.


Very distinct styles are subjective. Some may find someone like Weir's style is distinctive...but after watching year after year, it's same old same old. Amodio is the same, always dramatic. Dai use the same type of music ALL THE TIME. Jourber's techno forever.... I find Chan has more variety than these skaters.

Takahashi has used a wide variety of music in his programs. And they were very different. I mean he managed to portray both a tango with very sharp movement and a goofy, playful character in the same season. Last season one of his programs was a bit contemporary, the other was jazz. I could go on.

And yes what you said is exactly my point. Those skaters' programs are somewhat similar because they have a specific style that they feel comfortable with.

With Chan, I don't really see any style there. He moves to the music but he doesn't seem to really feel it or engage with it in the same way. He remains a little distant.

It's exceptional skating and his programs tick the boxes for the most part but I just wish his programs had more character and that he was more expressive.

Also, you really need to chill out. :P

trevor
09-17-2012, 09:23 AM
In terms of skating, yes. I was talking about upper body movement.



Takahashi has used a wide variety of music in his programs. And they were very different. I mean he managed to portray both a tango with very sharp movement and a goofy, playful character in the same season. Last season one of his programs was a bit contemporary, the other was jazz. I could go on.

And yes what you said is exactly my point. Those skaters' programs are somewhat similar because they have a specific style that they feel comfortable with.

With Chan, I don't really see any style there. He moves to the music but he doesn't seem to really feel it or engage with it in the same way. He remains a little distant.

It's exceptional skating and his programs tick the boxes for the most part but I just wish his programs had more character and that he was more expressive.

Also, you really need to chill out. :P

He, Patrick, when I saw him in his off season Asian tour, in person, was engaged alright. The dances, in T shirt and shimmering showwear, were all so advanced, smooth, that they left the local spectators, in awe.

His requirement for proper pre-show preparation is very strict, fully exercised aerobic workouts on jogging machine before the shows, etc. guaranteed a flexible, fluid performance all the time.

In comparison, I also watch Buttle, Browning, Plushenko and others in later show, and they appear more showy, but without the fluidity and smootness of Chan.

spikydurian
09-17-2012, 10:10 AM
Takahashi has used a wide variety of music in his programs. And they were very different. I mean he managed to portray both a tango with very sharp movement and a goofy, playful character in the same season. Last season one of his programs was a bit contemporary, the other was jazz. I could go on.
There are other skaters who can do that besides Takahashi.


With Chan, I don't really see any style there. He moves to the music but he doesn't seem to really feel it or engage with it in the same way. He remains a little distant.
To each his/her own. Some of us prefer the dramatic and expressive and some prefer the understated. Give me Patrick and Kozuka any time. :)


Also, you really need to chill out.
We all need to chill out before it gets too hot in here. (Anyway, you are bad Ziggy. You threw THE stone in the hornet's nest. Newton's third law: for every action there's an equal opposite reaction.) ;)

Emdee
09-17-2012, 01:25 PM
Everyone who watches him doesnt GET Patrick but I can tell you that every skater gets Patrick and those who snipe at him are just jealous.

Also watching Patrick skating in person is a thing of beauty! A lot is lost on You tube or TV.

Zemgirl
09-17-2012, 01:38 PM
Everyone who watches him doesnt GET Patrick but I can tell you that every skater gets Patrick and those who snipe at him are just jealous.
If I had a dollar for every time someone online suggested that criticism must be due to jealousy, I could actually afford to go to the Olympics!

For me, I'm glad that Chan's finally left Nichol; she's been doing better work for Kostner than she has for him. But I am once again underwhelmed by his music choices. The closest thing to a risky choice I've seen in his career was Take Five. As Ziggy stated, a lot of other skaters work within a certain range because they found a style that works for them - but with Chan, I'm not seeing a personal style, so more variety would be nice. Well, to each their own.

Look, it's fine to like Chan's skating, and it's okay not to like it. Both are valid opinions. But just because you enjoy his skating and performances doesn't mean that everyone must.

spikydurian
09-17-2012, 02:43 PM
^^^ No one is forcing you to. Emdee speaks in awe of Patrick's skating just as some of us are but we never say you should appreciate the skaters we like. Artistry is harder to measure than technical skills. A beautiful painting to one may be unattractive to another. To each his/her own...
Hope you can go to the Olympics .. I wish that too.:)