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Iceymom
09-05-2012, 07:59 PM
Anything you report that other people said and did is hearsay if you didn't witness them saying/doing it. By definition.

Since you couldn't possibly have talked to every single one of Sretenski's past and current students, then saying that none of them have done this and all of them believe that is, by definition, hearsay.

How or why would you assume, that someone does not know his current or past students?? Ice dance is a very small community.

berthesghost
09-05-2012, 08:16 PM
Sretenski has been coaching for years, and not one other student has come forward with allegations, to the contrary everyone including past and present students are providing and have been providing for the past year, their good wishes and support to him, which signals that this accuser has other motivations.No, it doesn't. Even if the first part were true, the part in bold is opinion: a conclusion you've drawn for yourself, and thus not fact at all.

MorganaLefay
09-05-2012, 09:10 PM
I sincerely hope that Mr. Sretenski is innocent, I loved him as a skater and in meeting him on a couple of occasions, he always acted like a true gentleman. I don't understand why everyone is being so nasty to iceymom--she is just expressing her opinion on the basis of her perception of the situation, what's so wrong with this? There is some bad karma for Russian skaters in Lake Placid--still cannot forget Lutai's incident.

berthesghost
09-05-2012, 09:16 PM
I don't understand why everyone is being so nasty to iceymom--she is just expressing her opinion on the basis of her perception of the situation, what's so wrong with this? Because demonizing a victim is wrong. She should hold off on her strong and one sided opinions until all of the facts are known, not jump to conclusions based on predisposed prejudices. Or, go ahead and give those opinions and risk being criticized

Nomad
09-05-2012, 09:22 PM
...I don't understand why everyone is being so nasty to iceymom--she is just expressing her opinion on the basis of her perception of the situation, what's so wrong with this?...

She is insisting that her opinions are facts.

Twizzler
09-05-2012, 09:39 PM
Iceymom, unless you were present when the alleged events occurred, all you have is one side of the story. His, I presume. That does not make it fact.

Just because no one else has come forward, doesn't necessarily mean this is an isolated incident.

There was a coach in the early 2000's who ended up getting banned for life by USFS after allegations from 1 skater. I know that there were many more before her- they just chose not to go to the authorities for whatever reason.

I agree with "innocent until proven guilty". Please don't state things as FACT unless you were there. That is the ONLY way to be 100% sure something did or did not happen.

MacMadame
09-05-2012, 09:54 PM
How or why would you assume, that someone does not know his current or past students?? Ice dance is a very small community.
I am well aware of that having been a part of it for over a decade.

But I didn't say you didn't know some of Sretenski's current and past students. I said unless you had talked to every single one of them, you can't report that they ALL said or did something (or didn't say or do something) as a fact.

Plus, I am pretty sure you don't know 100% of all his students he has ever had and, even if you did, I am pretty sure you haven't contacted 100% of them to find out their opinions on the matter. I'm also sure that, if a coach had behaved inappropriately to me, that you are the last person I would tell that to as I wouldn't want my private business spread all over the internet and you've demonstrated that you will do just that, if given the chance and if it suits your purposes.

Susan M
09-05-2012, 10:50 PM
The pomposity and self-righteousness in this thread defies belief.

Yes, it is obvs icymom has a personal involvement/relationship/knowledge that seeks to paint Stretensky in the best possible light and cast doubt on his accuser.

It is equally obvs that too many of the rest of you are overreacting instead of just reading it for what it is - postings of someone with an agenda (who just might really know more than you do about it).

Yes, coaches and others in authority have sometimes abused their students. Yes, there have also been children (and adults) who made up BS to get someone in trouble who turned out to be totally innocent.

Honestly, none of the rest of us here knows anything about it, certainly not enough to have any opinion one way or the other, so get off your sanctimonious and entirely theoretical high horses.

When functioning in total ignorance, neutrality is the only sensible course.

Sylvia
09-05-2012, 10:55 PM
Associated Press article today: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/attorney-says-figure-skating-coach-arrested-on-sealed-ny-charges-adamantly-denies-allegations/2012/09/05/66b194e6-f7a0-11e1-a93b-7185e3f88849_story.html

Attorney Rene Sandler said the charges stem from an alleged incident 13 months ago but she declined to release details and noted those details remained under seal. But she said the coach adamantly denies the accusations and she would vigorously defend him.

“He denies anything improper. Yes, absolutely,” Sandler said, adding that the coach “is a very, very well respected coach in the figure skating community.”

overedge
09-05-2012, 11:03 PM
The pomposity and self-righteousness in this thread defies belief.

Yes, it is obvs icymom has a personal involvement/relationship/knowledge that seeks to paint Stretensky in the best possible light and cast doubt on his accuser.

It is equally obvs that too many of the rest of you are overreacting instead of just reading it for what it is - postings of someone with an agenda (who just might really know more than you do about it).


IMHO it's not "overreacting" to respond to someone making very opinionated allegations about a highly sensitive subject, and presenting those allegations as informed fact.

triple_toe
09-05-2012, 11:18 PM
Iceymom's kid probably works or has worked with Sretenski in the past. I've no doubt that Iceymom is speaking the truth when she says neither she, nor anyone she knows of, has experienced anything untoward from Sretenski. So when allegations like this come about it's only natural that she would want to jump to his defence. Yes, she wasn't present at the actual incident but if she knows him well enough to think he wouldn't do something like this she should be able to say so. She's probably stressed about this and angry at the allegations so I think she isn't expressing herself as calmly as she could, which is perfectly natural. Not right but understandable.

None of this changes whether the allegations are true or not. I hope they're not but we just don't know. All I want to say is that if someone I knew personally was accused of something like this and I was convinced they were innocent, I might not be able to express myself with grace either. This is a really touchy subject (no pun intended :shuffle:) and it's easy for both sides to get heated.

I for one am glad that Iceymom has come forward as something of a character witness defending Sretenski here. It can't be easy. I like to think the best of my favourite skaters so when nasty rumours come about I like to hope they aren't true for my own selfish fandom. At least from Iceymom's posts he appears not to be a total sleazeball. If he's guilty, I hope he is punished but I also really hope that he is innocent.

ioana
09-05-2012, 11:18 PM
Yes, it is obvs icymom has a personal involvement/relationship/knowledge that seeks to paint Stretensky in the best possible light and cast doubt on his accuser.

The bolded part of your post is the problem. It's one thing to express support for someone you worked with (or whatever the case might be) and talk about your good experience dealing with the man. And then say something along the lines of hopefully we can all reserve judgment on this until all the facts are known. On the other hand, bringing up problems and issues of the alleged victim only makes you look like you have an axe to grind.


Yes, she wasn't present at the actual incident but if she knows him well enough to think he wouldn't do something like this she should be able to say so

No one said she shouldn't chime in. In fact I agree it's good to hear from other skaters or their parents. Presenting that opinion as fact (while belittling the skater who came forward) is the issue here...Hopefully you're right and this is just a case of posting while being too emotional.

Capella
09-05-2012, 11:29 PM
Given that the majority of skaters who compete at the Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships (which I'm assuming is the event, since there was no JGP last year) are *minors* and that according to the Associate Press article Sylvia linked to above said the charges are sealed, I would be extra careful about mentioning the accuser or identifying details.

liv
09-05-2012, 11:35 PM
Sometimes victims aren't really victims either.

I had a work placement at a school with children/teens with a variety of disabilities and was warned never to be alone with one teenaged student because she had a history of making up stories about people who worked there, irregardless of gender. No charges were ever laid, no evidence of wrongdoing ever came up, and staff knew everything to be false (and this school has a tremendous reputation), but it caused everyone who worked there a lot of trauma because of the investigations and the nature of the allegations and they never knew when she would make up something else because she chose to remain at the school. Every newcomer had to be warned in order to protect themselves. I"m just saying that sometimes there are cases where everyone does know that the accuser is making things up and it is because of her own issues. It has no other connection to this case.

As for this case, it's upsetting to hear of any allegations of this type, and i hope that whatever happened is properly investigated and the truth comes out, whatever it is.

pollyanna
09-05-2012, 11:55 PM
Iceymom's kid probably works or has worked with Sretenski in the past. I've no doubt that Iceymom is speaking the truth when she says neither she, nor anyone she knows of, has experienced anything untoward from Sretenski. So when allegations like this come about it's only natural that she would want to jump to his defence. Yes, she wasn't present at the actual incident but if she knows him well enough to think he wouldn't do something like this she should be able to say so. She's probably stressed about this and angry at the allegations so I think she isn't expressing herself as calmly as she could, which is perfectly natural. Not right but understandable.


It's one thing to express support for someone you worked with (or whatever the case might be) and talk about your good experience dealing with the man. And then say something along the lines of hopefully we can all reserve judgment on this until all the facts are known. On the other hand, bringing up problems and issues of the alleged victim only makes you look like you have an axe to grind.

No one said she shouldn't chime in. In fact I agree it's good to hear from other skaters or their parents. Presenting that opinion as fact (while belittling the skater who came forward) is the issue here...Hopefully you're right and this is just a case of posting while being too emotional.
I agree with ioana that the problem with iceymom's posts was not that she defended Sretenski, but that she made unfounded insinuations against the alleged victim. Iceymom also revealed the gender of the alleged victim which was all kinds of wrong. Obviously the authorities want this information sealed for now. See the bolded parts of her posts below:


Unfortunately, there are many twists and turns to this story, and the veracity, sexual activity with others and mental health status of the accuser will certainly be a very large issues. Sretenski has been coaching for years, and not one other student has come forward with allegations, to the contrary everyone including past and present students are providing and have been providing for the past year, their good wishes and support to him, which signals that this accuser has other motivations. The accuser will not be unscathed in all of this, and I am sure as in most cases, she does not realize what she has done to herself.


There are some clear facts here that the public should know, none of his past or current students have made allegations against him and truly support him and have been supporting him since the accuser came forward last year, with the exception of his accuser, who has her own issues to worry about that will be revealed in time.

I have admired and respected Sretenski for years, and I hope he is innocent, but I do not think we should make any assumptions about his accuser.