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View Full Version : U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold



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Vagabond
08-24-2012, 05:26 AM
Proceed....

love_skate2011
08-24-2012, 08:23 AM
weird headline, is it still mostly about Gracie Gold ? :confused:

mgobluegirl
08-24-2012, 02:33 PM
weird headline, is it still mostly about Gracie Gold ? :confused:

wasn't the last one too?

Sylvia
08-24-2012, 02:36 PM
Blame Vagabond who started both threads! :P

Re-posting the link to the Champs Camp article on Ashley Wagner, Christina Gao, and Agnes Zawadzki: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120823&content_id=37206732&vkey=ice_news

Senior B assignments so far:
Salt Lake City: Gracie Gold and Agnes Zawadzki
Nebelhorn Trophy: Caroline Zhang

love_skate2011
08-24-2012, 03:01 PM
thats nice more competitions for Gracie :cheer2:

Jammers
08-24-2012, 03:20 PM
Nice to see the top US Ladies going for the 3-3 combo's now. They see the writing on the wall that they need them if they hope to compete against the top Ladies. That's why it was frustrating the last couple years watching some of the top US Ladies like Mirai and Rachael and Ashley not pushing themselves technically and being happy with it. Alissa at least was planning too do a 3-3 last season even though it didn't pan out but at least she was ambitious. Now there is no choice. How things can change in just a couple years.

olympic
08-24-2012, 03:52 PM
Nice to see the top US Ladies going for the 3-3 combo's now. They see the writing on the wall that they need them if they hope to compete against the top Ladies. That's why it was frustrating the last couple years watching some of the top US Ladies like Mirai and Rachael and Ashley not pushing themselves technically and being happy with it. Alissa at least was planning too do a 3-3 last season even though it didn't pan out but at least she was ambitious. Now there is no choice. How things can change in just a couple years.

I can agree with you re Mirai and Rachael, but Ashley was going for 3-3's back in 2010 under Priscilla Hill, so I don't think it's fair to lump her in there

mgobluegirl
08-24-2012, 03:54 PM
I can agree with you re Mirai and Rachael, but Ashley was going for 3-3's back in 2010 under Priscilla Hill, so I don't think it's fair to lump her in there

Rachael consistently completed 3-3s in competition through the 2010 season.

smarts1
08-24-2012, 04:21 PM
The thing that frustrated me most about Rachael was that her level of technical ability was not the same season to season. Her triple-triples went MIA 2010-2011 and partially in 2008-2009.

B.Cooper
08-24-2012, 04:31 PM
The thing that frustrated me most about Rachael was that her level of technical ability was not the same season to season. Her triple-triples went MIA 2010-2011 and partially in 2008-2009.

IMO, some of the blame lies with TomZ...Flatt's coach..... as he changed up which 3-3's she was doing season to season and even within a season. Going back and looking at vids from different competitions for her SPs and LPs, he had her do 3F-3T, she worked on 3Lz-3T, 2A-3T, and if IIRC, he also had her doing 2A-3Lp and 3Lz-3Lp. So, no wonder the 3-3's became inconsistent. Only time I remember Flatt attempting 3T-3T was her junior season LP. No wonder she had chronic tendonitis for several seasons. :rolleyes:

Wagner talked about 3-3's but did not consistently try them in competitive programs. I think Mirai ran into similar issues as Flatt...IIRC, she had foot problems two yrs ago during the summer, (and IIRC, she showed up at Champs Camp with a boot/walking cast on her foot and did not do programs...so, as an aside, wonder why Evan was not required to do the same thing...whatever). I think the foot problems for Mirai hampered her attempts for 3-3's as well.

smarts1
08-24-2012, 05:01 PM
^ Yes, I was so angry that in 2010-2011, Rachael wasn't doing anything but skating, and her triple-triples went MIA the whole season and all they talked about was a triple lutz-triple loop combo which she never even attempted the whole season.

As for Mirai, Frank kept on watering down her programs. I remember looking at the protocols at Nationals this year and they decided to only go for a double axel-double toe in the LP, unlike her previous seasons. And last season, Mirai was injury free. Maybe we'll see some upgraded content this season.

Vagabond
08-24-2012, 05:17 PM
Blame Vagabond who started both threads! :P

:P

I was going to call it "Wagner's Rink Cycle," but I changed my mind. Maybe next time. :hat1:

B.Cooper
08-24-2012, 05:24 PM
^ Yes, I was so angry that in 2010-2011, Rachael wasn't doing anything but skating, and her triple-triples went MIA the whole season and all they talked about was a triple lutz-triple loop combo which she never even attempted the whole season.

As for Mirai, Frank kept on watering down her programs. I remember looking at the protocols at Nationals this year and they decided to only go for a double axel-double toe in the LP, unlike her previous seasons. And last season, Mirai was injury free. Maybe we'll see some upgraded content this season.

Again, I think alot of the responsibility is with Flatt's coach. Flatt did talk about the tendonitis issues from NHK trophy on in a couple of interviews thru out the remainder of her season. I think if Zakrajsek was not so focused on the COP and always upping the technical points in programs, Flatt would have had more success with placing 3-3s in her programs that season. I don't think it wasn't for lack of training the combinations...it is just that she was injured at every competition that season.

At some point, I think there is a point where the athlete is dealing with daily aches and pains from training, and their bodies just won't allow them to go beyond what they can currently do without inflicting more pain. So, the coaches look for other options...and perhaps that is "watering down" a program, so that the skater can successfully perform it. (Thinking Carolina Kostner a few seasons back when she wasn't doing flips or lutzes). On the other hand, I think Mirai and Rachael both dealt with reoccuring injury issues and just could not "up" the technical content any further. There is also a huge mental piece of the puzzle that comes into play....and if the skater doesn't have enough repetitions under their feet to do a more difficult element, it probably isn't going to happen in competition. And, add nagging injury issues to that. I think Ashley has had other issues ....correcting jumping technique (two footing, etc) that has been part of the process for her in terms of doing the 3-3s. Mr Nicks has had to break down her jump technique, to allow her to clean up the first triple, in order to be able to take off/vault properly for the second jump. So, will be interesting to see how the season progresses.

jlai
08-24-2012, 05:24 PM
Perhaps next time the thread title should be "desparately seeking Kween" or something like that

Sylvia
08-24-2012, 05:30 PM
Please, no "Kween" in the next Ladies thread title! :drama:

Copying over these 2 posts from the end of the last thread:

The senior ladies event at U.S. Nationals this year will be amazing! Four former champions + (potentially) the top 3 juniors from 2012 + some amazing story lines + lots of triple/triple threats + a pre-Olympic year + only 2 spots at Worlds = :watch:. This should be one of the better ladies events in recent years...

I see a potential large vacuum up top, considering the number of top ladies who are now starting college and that can affect their training.
This could be 2008 US nationals all over in terms of ladies-- with quite a few newbies getting top five.

We usually have a strong US nationals after a weak one? (e.g. 2003, 2004 US nationals in men). If so, this year should be exciting