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View Full Version : U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold



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olympic
11-17-2012, 07:17 PM
Judging by the scores on the ISU website, Ashley kicked some major a$$, breaking 190 pts.

smarts1
11-17-2012, 07:19 PM
The only thing I can say is that Ashley's team needs to work on her spin levels.

victoriaheidi
11-17-2012, 07:22 PM
Apparently, Ashley is the first US woman to win two GPs in the same season since Sasha Cohen in 2003. USFS posted that on twitter. Yay Ashley!

Agree about spin levels...she did get better levels in her SP, but she definitely needs to get those up because, even if she has the highest scores, she's still missing points she should logically get.

Jarrett
11-17-2012, 07:25 PM
Yea she is missing out on those extra levels on the spins :( could have been even higher. Also, does John Nicks make his skaters think they are sick all the time so they have something else to think about? (cough shingles)

cbd1235
11-17-2012, 07:38 PM
If you didn't see the program she was just a little bit short on her camel variation in her combo spin. Therefore she didn't get the variation and lost the change of edge since she didn't hold the inside edge portion long enough. That was the two levels on her combo spin lost. On her layback she lost one level due to the first position being short a half rotation from 8. And she seems to have ditched the jump in her flying sit, therefore it can only be level 3. Overall the spins need some polish but her skating heavily reminisced of Kwan...landing jump after jump without a bit of hesitation or doubt.

Marco
11-17-2012, 07:46 PM
Well the new rules for the season only allow the 8 rev feature to be counted once - the first time it is attempted - so if she wants to use it for her layback, she can't use it for her deathdrop. And the jump within the spin feature doesn't work well for her deathdrop so until she could work something out, level 3 is what she has to settle for the deathdrop if she wants to keep up the quality. The level on the combination spin depends too much on whether she is running out of time, in both the short and the free. If not, she would do an outside camel as her 4th feature.

victoriaheidi
11-17-2012, 07:50 PM
I just like seeing Ashley so confident! The spins have to be the next thing they work on...that and getting the 2a-3t consistent (it looks like she landed a 2a-2t today?). And yes, a triple-triple. But in the order I mentioned.

Does Nicks have anyone to recommend to his skaters for spins? Hill was so good at getting her spins under control.

Sylvia
11-17-2012, 08:11 PM
Post-FS press conference excerpts from the TEB forum in Kiss and Cry:

Ashley, you won your 2nd GP event how do you feel winning the 2nd GP and going to GPF
Today was a huge accomplishment - I went out there I didn't really feel at my best and to accomplish that program when not 100% was showing mentally that I don't have to be on top of my game to skate well and I was really happy.
...
To Wagner: you seemed a bit ill
Nothing much just a slight cold, so I wasn't felling 100%, so I wasn't terribly sick, just not my best
Are you contagious?
No!
...
To Wagner: how will you skate in GPF? What is your goal?
Wagner: It's to get my spin levels up and depending on how is it in practice I'd like to put the 3/3 for the first time this season - if it's not consistent it will not be in the program. All and all I am satisfied with where I am this season.
Very impressive 6-triple FS performances by both Ashley and Christina in Paris today - kudos to them! :)

ETA: Unfortunately for Christina, she is behind Elizaveta Tuktamysheva on the 22-point (13+9) tiebreaker in the GP Final qualification standings with NHK Trophy to go - her 2 GP competition total score is 338.96 to Liza's 347.62.

pinky166
11-17-2012, 08:40 PM
So basically after TEB it looks like US Nats is Ashley's to lose and she might not need a 3-3 or 2a-3t to win (or if she does go for them, can maybe afford some other mistakes). Also Gao's score here with a clean skate combined with last week's results make me think Gold is likely to be the 2nd girl on the World team, as for whatever reason, and whether deserved or not, she seems to have a slight PCS edge over Gao and Zawadzki, which, combined with her more ambitious content, explain why she was able to score higher than those two with more mistakes. I mean, Zawadzki got 106 for a FS with really only two errors skating in the final flight, and Gao with a clean skate in the second warmup got 112, the same as Gracie in Russia with all those mistakes she made. I do think which group you skate in makes a difference (to me, Gao's skate here was basically as good as it was at SA, where it scored 5 points higher, and Gracie's FS at COR was not all that much better than her one at SC, yet scored 13 points higher when I would have maybe put it at around 5 points higher), but as for now, it does seem that Gracie is heavy edge, especially with her SP content as if she can deliver a good SP and make the final flight at Worlds, that should help her stay afloat in FS scores should she make mistakes compared to Zawadzki or Gao who could, with a SP with mistakes, potentially fall out of even the penultimate group and might only make the penultimate group anyways even with a clean SP. I guess we'll see what happens at Nationals. If Gao and/or Zawadzki somehow manage to make the GPF though, that could help their cases. As for Mirai I'm putting her behind Gao and Zawadzki for now but NHK results (and again, should she somehow make a birth to the GPF) could alter that.

I think the best Czisny can hope for at this point is an outside shot at the 4CCs team.

olympic
11-17-2012, 08:48 PM
If you didn't see the program she was just a little bit short on her camel variation in her combo spin. Therefore she didn't get the variation and lost the change of edge since she didn't hold the inside edge portion long enough. That was the two levels on her combo spin lost. On her layback she lost one level due to the first position being short a half rotation from 8. And she seems to have ditched the jump in her flying sit, therefore it can only be level 3. Overall the spins need some polish but her skating heavily reminisced of Kwan...landing jump after jump without a bit of hesitation or doubt.

It's funny you should bring up Kwan. IDK if it's body type or what, but whatever it is in combo w/ Ashley's current consistency, plus the way she approaches jumps and spins reminds me a lot of the Kween.

Also, congrats to Gao. It sounds like she delivered another great LP. Any chance of her getting in the GPF??? ETA - I saw upthread that Tuk has her beat on the tiebreak ...

Sylvia
11-17-2012, 08:56 PM
Besides Wagner (30) and Korpi (26), the other 4 qualifiers are likely to be Lipnitskaia (24), Tuktamysheva (22) plus Asada (15) and Suzuki (13) at NHK Trophy next week unless, for example, Zawadzki (11) can be 2nd or higher and/or Nagasu (9) can win (or she can score 184.17+ total in winning silver).

aftershocks
11-17-2012, 10:25 PM
So basically after TEB it looks like US Nats is Ashley's to lose and she might not need a 3-3 or 2a-3t to win (or if she does go for them, can maybe afford some other mistakes). Also Gao's score here with a clean skate combined with last week's results make me think Gold is likely to be the 2nd girl on the World team, as for whatever reason, and whether deserved or not, she seems to have a slight PCS edge over Gao and Zawadzki, which, combined with her more ambitious content, explain why she was able to score higher than those two with more mistakes. I mean, Zawadzki got 106 for a FS with really only two errors skating in the final flight, and Gao with a clean skate in the second warmup got 112, the same as Gracie in Russia with all those mistakes she made. I do think which group you skate in makes a difference (to me, Gao's skate here was basically as good as it was at SA, where it scored 5 points higher, and Gracie's FS at COR was not all that much better than her one at SC, yet scored 13 points higher when I would have maybe put it at around 5 points higher), but as for now, it does seem that Gracie is heavy edge, especially with her SP content as if she can deliver a good SP and make the final flight at Worlds, that should help her stay afloat in FS scores should she make mistakes compared to Zawadzki or Gao who could, with a SP with mistakes, potentially fall out of even the penultimate group and might only make the penultimate group anyways even with a clean SP. I guess we'll see what happens at Nationals. If Gao and/or Zawadzki somehow manage to make the GPF though, that could help their cases. As for Mirai I'm putting her behind Gao and Zawadzki for now but NHK results (and again, should she somehow make a birth to the GPF) could alter that.

I think the best Czisny can hope for at this point is an outside shot at the 4CCs team.

Kudos to Ashley. She skated with such determination and confidence at TEB. I love the way she's pacing herself this season. She's got wonderful programs and the whole package too, not to mention a great coach! They are spot-on with the strategy re jumps and jump-layout. I really don't care about all the over-emphasis on jumps like they are the end-all and be-all in this sport. IMO, it's important to maintain a harmonious balance and that's what Ashley exhibits in spades, along with hard-won maturity and grit. She'll add more technical difficulty when and if she's ready and the timing is right. What Ashley is doing right now technically is stellar and admirable -- proven by her marks. The over-focus on jump difficulty by some fans to me is a result of being jaded by 3/3s and baby ballerinas. Triple/ triples alone do not make great skating.

Gracie is quite wonderful, but I think she still needs time to grow in artistry. However, I'm sure that because Gracie has more impressive jumps than Christina, the edge will be given to Gracie should both Gracie and Christina perform to their capabilities at Nationals. At this point, if Christina performs as well at Nationals as she did at SA and in the fp at TEB, I prefer her skating over Gracie's, but they are both enjoyable to watch and extremely talented. I am enjoying watching Agnes and Mirai this season too. It's a shame there are only two spots available for 2013 Worlds. Whoever goes to Worlds among the ladies really need to bring back 3 spots for next season's Worlds and Olympics.

chipso1
11-17-2012, 10:39 PM
Congrats to Ashley on winning her second GP gold of the season in Paris! :cheer2:

2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

1. Ashley WAGNER (190.63), Trophee Eric Bompard
2. Gracie GOLD (175.03), Rostelecom Cup
3. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America
4. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
5. Mirai NAGASU (163.46), Cup of China
6. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb

7. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada
12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled

13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
16. Rachael FLATT (136.09), Skate America out for rest of season
17. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul


Upcoming assignments:

NHK Trophy (Mirai NAGASU, Agnes ZAWADZKI)
JGP Final (Leah KEISER, Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
GP Final (Ashley WAGNER)

olympic
11-17-2012, 11:14 PM
Congrats to Ashley on winning her second GP gold of the season in Paris! :cheer2:

2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

1. Ashley WAGNER (190.63), Trophee Eric Bompard
2. Gracie GOLD (175.03), Rostelecom Cup
3. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America
4. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
5. Mirai NAGASU (163.46), Cup of China
6. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb

7. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada
12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled

13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
16. Rachael FLATT (136.09), Skate America out for rest of season
17. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul


Upcoming assignments:

NHK Trophy (Mirai NAGASU, Agnes ZAWADZKI)
JGP Final (Leah KEISER, Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
GP Final (Ashley WAGNER)


Thanks. The chart is helpful in discerning where American ladies stand.

The following scores don't count for purposes of your chart, but Vanessa Lam scored 177.73 at her Sectionals competition last week, Samantha scored 163.53, and Ashley Cain scored 161.49. I think at least Vanessa's and Ashley Cain's scores show improvement/progress over their international scores listed above from earlier in the season (although I realize comparing domestic to international scores is apples to oranges).

I really hope Agnes and Mirai do well at NHK. Especially Mirai! I would like her to realize her potential.

BTW, isn't Wagner's score the highest international CoP score for a US lady ever? Mirai had around 190 pts. in Vancouver in 2010 and 189 pts. at '11 4CC's, and perhaps Sasha Cohen scored somewhere around that no. at her best in the last decade ...

The competition at Nats will be quite intense!

aftershocks
11-17-2012, 11:32 PM
Thanks. The chart is helpful in discerning where American ladies stand.

The following scores don't count for purposes of your chart, but Vanessa Lam scored 177.73 at her Sectionals competition last week, Samantha scored 163.53, and Ashley Cain scored 161.49. I think at least Vanessa's and Ashley Cain's scores show improvement/progress over their international scores listed above from earlier in the season (although I realize comparing domestic to international scores is apples to oranges).

I really hope Agnes and Mirai do well at NHK. Especially Mirai! I would like her to realize her potential.

BTW, isn't Wagner's score the highest international CoP score for a US lady ever? Mirai had around 190 pts. in Vancouver in 2010 and 189 pts. at '11 4CC's, and perhaps Sasha Cohen scored somewhere around that no. at her best in the last decade ...

The competition at Nats will be quite intense!

ITA, and thanks for pointing out Ashley Cain's and Vanessa's recent Sectionals scores, because I think those marks likely provide a better picture of where they might place among the top finishers at Nationals. There is probably a greater correlation between Sectionals and Nationals scores than there would be between International and Nationals scores, particularly for Cain and Lam.

Nationals is generally always exciting, but there is sure to be a bit more buzz and excitement in the ladies event in January, than there has been in recent years. :)