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View Full Version : U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold



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olympic
11-04-2012, 03:35 PM
^I'm not using this as an excuse, but wasn't the caller at CoC extremely tough? I know that a skater shouldn't rely on the whims of a caller, but I wonder if a majority of callers at any other comp would've nailed the skaters (Asada and Lipnitskaya included) the way this caller did ..

smarts1
11-04-2012, 04:16 PM
^ Yes, some of the calls that they made were borderline ridiculous.

Coco
11-04-2012, 04:30 PM
I think Nagasu has gotten too broad to rotate quickly enough.

Oh for chrissakes, she's not too broad. Leonova was on the podium last year and she's "broader" yet magically still fit.

On a related rant, I'm tired of hearing people use the words "lightness" and "heavy" to describe quality of movement.

The only difference between Ashley and Mirai is mental/emotional. Ashley presents her programs, attacks her jumps and competes with confidence.

Obviously those differences are major, but size wise and jump wise, they are very similar. If Ashley can do it, no one should give up on Mirai.

Marco
11-04-2012, 04:38 PM
Oh for chrissakes, she's not too broad.

I am thinking shoulders.

Marco
11-04-2012, 04:42 PM
^I'm not using this as an excuse, but wasn't the caller at CoC extremely tough? I know that a skater shouldn't rely on the whims of a caller, but I wonder if a majority of callers at any other comp would've nailed the skaters (Asada and Lipnitskaya included) the way this caller did ..

The caller was probably tougher than usual, but Nagasu had flip rotation issues at Finlandia too. So I doubt the caller is all to be blamed for her result. It is also unfortunate as well that Nagasu probably has no more internationals before Nationals.

pinky166
11-04-2012, 04:45 PM
Oh for chrissakes, she's not too broad. Leonova was on the podium last year and she's "broader" yet magically still fit.

On a related rant, I'm tired of hearing people use the words "lightness" and "heavy" to describe quality of movement.

The only difference between Ashley and Mirai is mental/emotional. Ashley presents her programs, attacks her jumps and competes with confidence.

Obviously those differences are major, but size wise and jump wise, they are very similar. If Ashley can do it, no one should give up on Mirai.

Leonova is maybe sturdier, but she has a very small frame. Mirai does have very broad shoulders, even though otherwise she may be "thinner" than someone like Leonova or Wagner. The higher your center of gravity is, the harder it is to control. I think Mirai is also quite a bit taller than Leonova or Wagner, she certainly has longer legs, and that combined with the broad shoulders probably does mean she has a high center of gravity. Idk how this necessarily relates to under-rotating her jumps, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did make a difference. Some of it is also her technique though, with those hooked landings. She had this issue even as an itty-bitty 13 year old.

Marco
11-04-2012, 05:28 PM
But that's because of getting taught "quick fix" jumping technique which is not sustainable once you get your adult body.

The lutz and flip technique in particular :scream:

burntBREAD
11-04-2012, 05:39 PM
I do hope Mirai can rotate her jumps more quickly -- like others have said, the height and whatnot are fine, but she just rotates sort of slowly. I've also noticed that she has a slight wrap on her jumps as well, surely if she gets a tighter air position, she would be able to rotate more quickly.

triple_toe
11-04-2012, 08:17 PM
Mirai's supposed "broad" frame wouldn't be an issue if she had proper technique from the start. She is fit and thin and fine. She had underrotated jumps when she was a tiny 4'10" junior skater, it's not a question of body type, it's a question of poor coaching basics.

Anita18
11-04-2012, 08:25 PM
And aren't hips the dangerous place to be "broad" in? Last time I checked, the men didn't usually have problems rotating their jumps. Surely their shoulders are broader than Mirai's. :P

To me, it looks like her jumps have gotten a bit of a wrap in them. I don't think that helps with rotation.

pinky166
11-04-2012, 09:21 PM
The interesting thing is didn't Mirai used to have a flutz? And now she gets edge calls on her flip....it's very strange really. You wonder if trying to fix her flutz affected her flip. As for the leg wrap, I've noticed that a little bit too, but it's not that pronounced. It's funny how UR issues seem to be common among ladies with Japanese heritage, surely it's a coincidence, but still a trend nonetheless.

PinkFeathers
11-04-2012, 10:11 PM
I'm pretty psyched about US Ladies skating right now. All it took was one determined skater - Ashley Wagner - and now the other top skaters are rising to the challenge.

Mirai got dinged on underrotations at Cup of China, but I haven't seen her skate as determined as she did in a long time, particularly in the short program.

Christina Gao is finally getting used to her long limbs, and looks so much more calm on the ice.

And hopefully, having such strong skaters at the top already will take some of the pressure off of Gracie. She's so new to the Senior level, she shouldn't feel discouraged if it's ever overwhelming.

Then again, maybe it's just that these skaters are getting older and more mature. They've been trading places on the Senior podium for so long that it's hard to remember that most of them are still under twenty.

^^^ All of this. Every team goes through rebuilding periods... and we're smack in the center of one. Whether or not we should be in the year before Sochi is irrelevant; we are, and we just need to get the team confidence built up for the ride.

smarts1
11-05-2012, 03:15 AM
The interesting thing is didn't Mirai used to have a flutz? And now she gets edge calls on her flip....it's very strange really. You wonder if trying to fix her flutz affected her flip. As for the leg wrap, I've noticed that a little bit too, but it's not that pronounced. It's funny how UR issues seem to be common among ladies with Japanese heritage, surely it's a coincidence, but still a trend nonetheless.

Different callers call her flips and lutzes very inconsistently. Some just call her flips while others just call her lutzes.

mag
11-05-2012, 03:27 AM
Different callers call her flips and lutzes very inconsistently. Some just call her flips while others just call her lutzes.

Or perhaps Mirai doesn't have a definite edge on either jump and depending on where it is in the program, how well trained she is, how tired she is, or any other number of variables, she sometimes lips, sometimes flutzes, and sometime goes off the flat and isn't called.

I'm not sure why it would be assumed that it is inconsistency in calling versus inconsistency in skating. I suspect there is probably a little of both; however, I find it hard to believe the three person technical panel is calling something that is not there. It is kind of like speeding. You know you are breaking the law, and you sometimes get away with it, but when you are caught, the fact that you have got away with it before doesn't mean you don't deserve a ticket now.

smarts1
11-05-2012, 01:06 PM
Or perhaps Mirai doesn't have a definite edge on either jump and depending on where it is in the program, how well trained she is, how tired she is, or any other number of variables, she sometimes lips, sometimes flutzes, and sometime goes off the flat and isn't called.

I'm not sure why it would be assumed that it is inconsistency in calling versus inconsistency in skating. I suspect there is probably a little of both; however, I find it hard to believe the three person technical panel is calling something that is not there. It is kind of like speeding. You know you are breaking the law, and you sometimes get away with it, but when you are caught, the fact that you have got away with it before doesn't mean you don't deserve a ticket now.

Really? Those three have been extremely questionable calls before which makes me wonder who has the most power of the three. Because no one saw underrotations on Flatt's triple flips in the Olympics and no one saw an underrotation on Yuna's triple lutz-triple toe at the 2009 GPF except for them.