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View Full Version : U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold



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Triple Butz
08-24-2012, 07:17 PM
The thing that frustrated me most about Rachael was that her level of technical ability was not the same season to season. Her triple-triples went MIA 2010-2011 and partially in 2008-2009.

What frustrated me was that in the 10/11 season her Tom Z came out and told the media that the other girls had lessened their difficulty and Rachael had kept hers up. As others have noted, she failed to land a 3/3 or even attempt one for the whole season. :blah:

valyrian
08-24-2012, 08:51 PM
:/ Did Tom Z ever get some official scrutiny thrown his way re: the worlds debacle? I felt it was terribly unfair for Rachael to be the only one fined, or at least publicly fined, when her coach had supervised a very similar situation two months before (Josh Farris at nationals).

And, speaking of Rachael, is there any news from champs camp about her? She is there, yes?

pinky166
08-24-2012, 09:20 PM
Lam and Cain finished 4th and 5th at the JGP in France. Vanessa scored 140.89 and Ashley 136.51. If USFS was intelligent neither would get a 2nd event and Long and Edmunds would be sent out to the next available event, but I wouldn't be surprised if they both get 2nd assignments and one or both of Barbie and Polina lucks out :slinkaway.

Anyways, this was the point I was making about Lam. In domestic competitions, she scores very well. In international competitions, however, she rarely breaks 6s for PCS, and that combined with her jumps that garner no +GOE, no 3-3, and her tendency to make a couple mistakes in her programs means she's unlikely to really make it as a senior internationally. I mean, this wasn't that deep of a field, she was one of the oldest skaters in the field, and she failed to medal, placing behind two complete unknown youngsters. Maybe with a jump overhaul she could really go places, but idk...

RD
08-24-2012, 10:44 PM
from thread #4:


At least Ashley is mostly mostly consistent (w/ only the occasional 2-foot) after moving to Nicks. Agnes has a taller order to fill

Agreed about Zawadzki (not giving up on her yet, though)...however, I'm not completely convinced yet that Wagner has exercised ALL of her SP demons...

Still, I'm curious to see how Wagner handles this season. Hopefully last season wasn't her peak...

olympic
08-24-2012, 10:55 PM
Lam and Cain finished 4th and 5th at the JGP in France. Vanessa scored 140.89 and Ashley 136.51. If USFS was intelligent neither would get a 2nd event and Long and Edmunds would be sent out to the next available event, but I wouldn't be surprised if they both get 2nd assignments and one or both of Barbie and Polina lucks out :slinkaway.

Anyways, this was the point I was making about Lam. In domestic competitions, she scores very well. In international competitions, however, she rarely breaks 6s for PCS, and that combined with her jumps that garner no +GOE, no 3-3, and her tendency to make a couple mistakes in her programs means she's unlikely to really make it as a senior internationally. I mean, this wasn't that deep of a field, she was one of the oldest skaters in the field, and she failed to medal, placing behind two complete unknown youngsters. Maybe with a jump overhaul she could really go places, but idk...

ITA w/ your post! Vanessa was also awesome last summer only to tank during the actual competitive season. Considering all the possible talent, the USFSA should adopt a policy of sending any no. of the new gals out to these big events if any of the older gals don't cut it. It really is the only way to move the whole of US skating forward

martyross
08-24-2012, 11:42 PM
:P

I was going to call it "Wagner's Rink Cycle," but I changed my mind. Maybe next time. :hat1:

that would have been awesome. please use it next time. and Ashley does deserve more attention here !

pinky166
08-25-2012, 12:15 AM
ITA w/ your post! Vanessa was also awesome last summer only to tank during the actual competitive season. Considering all the possible talent, the USFSA should adopt a policy of sending any no. of the new gals out to these big events if any of the older gals don't cut it. It really is the only way to move the whole of US skating forward

Yes exactly. Did Vanessa deserve an initial JGP assignment - absolutely! She skated very well this summer and had a decent season last year. But does she deserve a second? If there were not that many strong girls to pick from so USFS could afford to send more girls to 2 events just for the experience regardless of if they were likely to make the final, then I would say it would make sense, but when we've still got 3 really talented girls deserving of an assignment who have yet to get one event, I would say no, don't send Vanessa out again, or at least not until all the girls that deserve an assignment have gotten one and the results are in and her placement is better than most of the rest. Vanessa has experience, she was given the benefit of the doubt when she was named to the JW team after placing behind Wang at Nationals and struggling at the JGPF, and although she's capable of winning JGPs as she's done it before, she needs to skate basically clean to do so and you can usually count on her to make at least a couple errors in her FS. So, basically, I won't get mad if Vanessa gets a 2nd assignment, but I will be very mad if she gets a 2nd before Barbie and Polina (and maybe even Mariah too) get a 1st. And as for Ashley, her chances of qualifying for the JGPF are slim to none with a 5th place finish and her technical capabilities, so I really don't see the point in sending her out again. She too earned her 1st spot, but to be honest, I feel she had the skate of her life in the FS at Nationals and that her JGP outings here and last season are more typical of what we can usually expect from her...

jlai
08-25-2012, 12:15 AM
ITA w/ your post! Vanessa was also awesome last summer only to tank during the actual competitive season. Considering all the possible talent, the USFSA should adopt a policy of sending any no. of the new gals out to these big events if any of the older gals don't cut it. It really is the only way to move the whole of US skating forward

IMHO it's fine to send untested skaters (e.g. Gold and Agnes Z at juniors), but without upcomers competing against each other in the summer, it's hard to tell how reliable a club competition score is. (As it turns out, it's not that reliable for Lam as her jumps could be dinged at JGPs. :slinkaway ). And if USFS uses club competition score to send a girl further down the US nationals list and if the girl tanks, then USFS gets criticized, which is exactly why USFS always plays safe and uses US nationals ranking (to avoid the political ramifications if things go wrong).

The only way to pick out girls without controversy is to set aside JGP spots and name one summer competition to decide where spots go. This year so many men competed at Glacier Falls. If a large number of ladies do that also next year, that can turn out to be the "JGP qualificaiton" event for those without assignments.

skfan
08-25-2012, 12:38 AM
IMHO it's fine to send untested skaters (e.g. Gold and Agnes Z at juniors), but without upcomers competing against each other in the summer, it's hard to tell how reliable a club competition score is. (As it turns out, it's not that reliable for Lam as her jumps could be dinged at JGPs. :slinkaway ). And if USFS uses club competition score to send a girl further down the US nationals list and if the girl tanks, then USFS gets criticized, which is exactly why USFS always plays safe and uses US nationals ranking (to avoid the political ramifications if things go wrong).

The only way to pick out girls without controversy is to set aside JGP spots and name one summer competition to decide where spots go. This year so many men competed at Glacier Falls. If a large number of ladies do that also next year, that can turn out to be the "JGP qualificaiton" event for those without assignments.

i would prefer that USFS designate a certain # of spots that depend on nationals and a certain # that don't, and what you have to achieve at 1st JGP to get a 2nd. that way it's clear to all what they will have to do to get one. specify which summer competition will determine nationals-independent spots, for those not likely to qualify by nationals results because those skaters were injured the previous season or just skated poorly at nationals, etc, and have those skaters compete against each other scored by the same judging panel. and USFS should also clarify that senior nationals #12 will be given priority over junior nationals #4, etc. if i were on team karen chen, team polina edmunds, or team barbie long, i would be mighty tempted to have my skater become a US nationals senior by the september 1st deadline, looking at USFS's pattern of JGP distribution this season (sending nina jiang :eek: instead of barbie long).

peibeck
08-25-2012, 02:30 AM
As for Mirai, Frank kept on watering down her programs. I remember looking at the protocols at Nationals this year and they decided to only go for a double axel-double toe in the LP, unlike her previous seasons. And last season, Mirai was injury free. Maybe we'll see some upgraded content this season.

:confused: Mirai was doing the 2A/3T combo in practices and during the warm-up at Nationals. Mirai changed the layout of her FS program as she was skating it that night from what she had been practicing. I don't think that is Frank's fault.

peibeck
08-25-2012, 02:41 AM
Yes exactly. Did Vanessa deserve an initial JGP assignment - absolutely! She skated very well this summer and had a decent season last year. But does she deserve a second?

She was third in the free skate and fourth overall in Courcheval, and last season she was fourth in her first JGP event also but still managed to make the JGPF.

Good heavens, it's always the end of the world if a US lady doesn't medal. :lol:

oleada
08-25-2012, 02:42 AM
Actually, last season Lam was 3rd in her first JGP event (Australia).

skfan
08-25-2012, 02:47 AM
She was third in the free skate and fourth overall in Courcheval, and last season she was fourth in her first JGP event also but still managed to make the JGPF.

Good heavens, it's always the end of the world if a US lady doesn't medal. :lol:

it's not the end of the world. it's that others are also deserving of 1 chance before vlam gets 2.

peibeck
08-25-2012, 03:02 AM
Actually, last season Lam was 3rd in her first JGP event (Australia).

You're correct, sorry for my error. Still, I think she is deserving of another chance if it arises.

skfan
08-25-2012, 03:09 AM
You're correct, sorry for my error. Still, I think she is deserving of another chance if it arises.

you think she deserves another JGP before polina edmunds or barbie long even gets one?