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View Full Version : U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold



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skfan
09-23-2012, 08:32 AM
sectionals in canada looks more promising than sectionals in the U.S., definitely, although the canadian ladies on the JGP are attempting 3-3's...

what i'm curious about is... USFSA is not making her sit out a season like they did with piper gilles? and who is coaching alexe now?

gkelly
09-23-2012, 12:53 PM
what i'm curious about is... USFSA is not making her sit out a season like they did with piper gilles? and who is coaching alexe now?

1) Didn't Alexe already "sit out" the 2011-12 season? Looks like she didn't compete internationally at all last year.

2) She is not yet in a position to be assigned to any international events representing Canada. If and when she is, then we'll see what, if anything, USFS will have to say about it.

And her last international medal was 2008-09 JGPF, so by next fall that will have been 4 years.

olympic
09-23-2012, 03:39 PM
After JGP Istanbul...

2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

1. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
2. Gracie GOLD (171.15), U.S. Classic
3. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
4. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
5. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
6. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid

7. Angela WANG (150.40), JGP Lake Placid
8. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
9. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
10. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
11. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul

Upcoming assignments:

JGP Bled (Courtney HICKS, Barbie LONG)
JGP Zagreb (Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
JGP Chemnitz (most likely will be Samantha CESARIO & Leah KEISER)
Nebelhorn Trophy (Caroline ZHANG)
Finlandia Trophy (Mirai NAGASU)


Some of my random thoughts on US ladies as we head into the Fall, a 'meatier part of the season', based on the above.

Agnes and Gracie - setting themselves up well for the GP series against the best in the world. Agnes won against a phenom and she wasn't perfect, but held it together in the LP. This should be a shot in the arm for her. Gracie made a couple of mistakes, but she nailed the big elements in her LP, won it with a great score, and there shouldn't be any hand-wringing about those mistakes. Her team will iron those out over the course of the season.

Ashley - It will be interesting to see whether she keeps up with these ladies' scores at her first competition which I think is SA (??), and answers back with a 3-3. She didn't compete at all this Summer. ETA - I just saw a tweet from Ashley that she skated an awesome SP yesterday. Anyone know about this??

Alissa - Will her late start put her behind the top ladies? If she doesn't go to NHK because she's still recovering, then Nationals could conceivably be her first competition!

Gaggle of Juniors - Any of Keiser, Hicks, Wang, Cesario (I think Miller will be a Jr. at Nats?) could be final group material at Nats this year. They are really solid early.

Vanessa - She looks like she is following the same trajectory as last season: WOW during the Summer, but lackluster already. I don't think she'll get another JGP assignment with the gaggle ahead of her doing so well and I'll be surprised (but pleasantly) if she turns it on later and ends up a top lady. I do think her presentation this year is a step in the right direction.

Mirai - I was encouraged we saw her deliver solid programs in the Summer at Glacier Falls, avoiding falls and step-outs and I do realize she needs to clean up those tentative landings, but she looks much more committed and has solved her biggest problem this year; the drive to and from the rink. I think she has another thing going for her: She's less noticed this year and she could be a dark horse by Nats.

Caroline - No judgment yet. Her Hidden Valley performances were meh, but that means nothing in July. I'll be focused on her this Fall and hope her steely resolve is a permanent characteristic. She's a threat for the podium at Nats if that's the case.

Rachael - :yikes: based on the above. It looks like she's even further back from the top at this point. I don't think she'll make the team or even be on the podium (too much talent above her now) but perhaps we can expect another spirited performance from her at some point.

Christina - I don't know if she can juggle Harvard and top level skating. Look at Emily Hughes. Christina's start this Summer was less than exciting and there's so much talent ahead of her right now.

IDK, I'll go out on a limb and say the season's back and forth will be Ashley, Agnes and Gracie fighting for title of #1 US lady. Scrappy Caroline hanging with them and stepping in if any of the above flounder, Alissa scrambling to hang with them (hope no catastrophes), and Mirai a little more relaxed and a true dark horse. Throw in a few Juniors with less pressure on them, too, for good measure (but maybe not Vanessa)

jlai
09-23-2012, 04:00 PM
Miller will be competing as a senior

johndockley92
09-23-2012, 04:05 PM
Ashley - It will be interesting to see whether she keeps up with these ladies' scores at her first competition which I think is SA (??), and answers back with a 3-3. She didn't compete at all this Summer. ETA - I just saw a tweet from Ashley that she skated an awesome SP yesterday. Anyone know about this??

Alissa - Will her late start put her behind the top ladies? If she doesn't go to NHK because she's still recovering, then Nationals could conceivably be her first competition!

Gaggle of Juniors - Any of Keiser, Hicks, Wang, Cesario (I think Miller will be a Jr. at Nats?) could be final group material at Nats this year. They are really solid early.

Vanessa - She looks like she is following the same trajectory as last season: WOW during the Summer, but lackluster already. I don't think she'll get another JGP assignment with the gaggle ahead of her doing so well and I'll be surprised (but pleasantly) if she turns it on later and ends up a top lady. I do think her presentation this year is a step in the right direction.

Mirai - I was encouraged we saw her deliver solid programs in the Summer at Glacier Falls, avoiding falls and step-outs and I do realize she needs to clean up those tentative landings, but she looks much more committed and has solved her biggest problem this year; the drive to and from the rink. I think she has another thing going for her: She's less noticed this year and she could be a dark horse by Nats.

Caroline - No judgment yet. Her Hidden Valley performances were meh, but that means nothing in July. I'll be focused on her this Fall and hope her steely resolve is a permanent characteristic. She's a threat for the podium at Nats if that's the case.

Rachael - :yikes: based on the above. It looks like she's even further back from the top at this point. I don't think she'll make the team or even be on the podium (too much talent above her now) but perhaps we can expect another spirited performance from her at some point.

Christina - I don't know if she can juggle Harvard and top level skating. Look at Emily Hughes. Christina's start this Summer was less than exciting and there's so much talent ahead of her right now.

IDK, I'll go out on a limb and say the season's back and forth will be Ashley, Agnes and Gracie fighting for title of #1 US lady. Scrappy Caroline hanging with them and stepping in if any of the above flounder, Alissa scrambling to hang with them (hope no catastrophes), and Mirai a little more relaxed and a true dark horse. Throw in a few Juniors with less pressure on them, too, for good measure (but maybe not Vanessa)

^^ Agree with a lot of the above. Pretty sure though that Miller is doing Senior. Out of all the JGP skaters doing senior I think that Cesario definitely has the most senior look - so if she can hold her technical together, she has 5th/6th potential?? Also would love to see Mirai and Caroline fighting for a medal, and fear that Alissa and Raechel are out of it for good. Vanessa is looking like she will never make the jump to the top and I think she should go tryout with Rockne; but that's a whole 'nother story. Ashley/Gracie/Agnes certainly look like the title favorites as of now.

Sylvia
09-23-2012, 04:12 PM
Summer competition (known) high scores compilation for the U.S. Senior ladies (plus international scores so far): http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/scoretracker/2012-2013-senior-ladies-scores/

Junior ladies from 2012 Nationals that have tested up to Senior in the U.S. include the top 3 of Gracie Gold, Ashley Cain, and Hannah Miller, plus 8th-11th Jenelle Herman, Katarina Kulgeyko, Allison Timlen, Jessica Hu. Jordan Bauth (7th at the 2012 Youth Olympic Games) has also tested up to Senior.


Ashley - It will be interesting to see whether she keeps up with these ladies' scores at her first competition which I think is SA (??), and answers back with a 3-3. She didn't compete at all this Summer. ETA - I just saw a tweet from Ashley that she skated an awesome SP yesterday. Anyone know about this??
Wagner competed her SP (as a special invite, I assume) at the Southern California Inter-Club Invitational Series Final, September 22-23 at Paramount Iceland. I haven't heard any details or know of a score yet at this time.

kwanatic
09-23-2012, 08:39 PM
Posting this here too, since it's relevant...

I've updated with a 2012-2013 preview of the American Ladies. I'm working on the JGP Bosphorus review and should have it posted some time tomorrow. Enjoy!

http://thenakedice.blogspot.com/

DORISPULASKI
09-23-2012, 08:52 PM
There is really no point in giving Mirai Skate America, since she has already has one GP to get enough TES for Worlds, and is not likely to qualify for the GPF (which is why she might get 2)

Alissa is not healthy enough for the GP. Everyone 12th & above at US Senior Nationals is taken care of (either at GP or JGP) except Rachael.

The young kids are pretty much all scheduled on the JGP.

Leah Keiser won her event, earned TES qualified for Worlds, and the JGPF. Plus she's too young, AFAIR

Samantha Cesario already has high enough TES in the SP & LP from her JGP appearance to be qualified to skate at Worlds. The same is true of Hannah Miller.

Vanessa Lam did not skate well in her JGP event, Neither did Nina Jiang, Kiri Baga & Ashley Cain.

Ashley Wagner, Christina Gao, Caroline Zhang, Gracie Gold, and Agnes Zawadzki all already have 2 GP's

The two skaters who have already skated once on the JGP, did well, but didn't meet the Worlds qualifying score are Courtney Hicks (16) & Angela Wang (15). But that's a better reason to give them a second JGP than a GP slot.

US girls scheduled for the JGP who have not yet skated:
Mariah Bell (16 on July 1st) no event, listed as a substitute. (5th in Juniors)
Polina Edmunds (too young for gp)
Barbie Long (15 on July 1st) assigned a JGP event, with Chemnitz an S (4th in juniors)
Yasmin Siraj (15 on July 1st) no event, listed as a substitute (15th in Seniors)

Rachael has only the one event. And the girls skating on the JGP will have better results there than they will on GP, in all likelihood. And the only two girls that might make sense are Mariah Bell (5th in Juniors at US Nationals) & Yasmin Siraj (15th at US Nationals in Seniors). The phenom from the summer this year is Polina Edmunds, and she's too young for the GP.

So I see no really pressing reason to replace Rachael at this time, unless you want to give Polina Barbie Long's JGP slot, and then give Barbie Rachael's slot.

chipso1
09-23-2012, 09:00 PM
Doris, any skater who has already competed on the JGP this season is not eligible to take Rachael's spot at SA.

I highly doubt Rachael will be replaced, but if she is, Mirai is the most logical choice to take that spot.

skfan
09-23-2012, 09:05 PM
1) Didn't Alexe already "sit out" the 2011-12 season? Looks like she didn't compete internationally at all last year.

2) She is not yet in a position to be assigned to any international events representing Canada. If and when she is, then we'll see what, if anything, USFS will have to say about it.

And her last international medal was 2008-09 JGPF, so by next fall that will have been 4 years.


indeed, it has been a while since alexe's skating graced the international stage. i wasn't clear on whether you could serve your sit-out retroactively. i thought once you made your country change, that's when the sit-out period begins. :D

it's also possible that since i'm fond of alexe, in my mind her moment of glory as aschenbrundel (sp) at TEB was only yesterday...

i am still curious to know about alexe's coaching situation. thanks in advance for everyone's thoughts and comments.

Sylvia
09-23-2012, 09:06 PM
Skaters are not allowed to compete on the Senior and Junior Grand Prix in the same season (including pairs starting this season).

The current minimum age for the Senior Grand Prix is 14 as of July 1, 2012 so, technically, both Keiser (who already has competed on the JGP this season so is ineligible for the Senior GP) and Edmunds are old enough.

Even if there were a 3rd spot open, USFS is not going to give Skate America to a junior level skater such as Bell, Long or Edmunds (after all, they didn't give the 3rd SA spot to Gracie Gold last year before she was assigned to the final JGP :P).

From her tweets, it sounds like Alexe Gilles has returned to Colorado Springs to train. Alexe's twin sister, Piper, was allowed to compete with Paul Poirier in Canadian qualifying competition/Nationals last season - she just wasn't allowed to compete internationally for Canada until this season.

pinky166
09-23-2012, 09:06 PM
USFS probably assigned Barbie a JGP instead of reassigning someone like Vanessa again because they want Barbie to be on the JW team, and with the new rules, if she doesn't compete at a JGP, she can't compete at JW this season b/c she has to meet a minimum qualifying score. If she competed on the senior GP, then also do to new rules, she couldn't compete at JW either. So that doesn't make sense. Anyone who wants to be considered for JW can't compete in a senior ISU competition before JW happens b/c that would make them ineligible. I think the age rule regarding GP hasn't changed yet, so technically, Polina Edmunds IS old enough to skate at SA if she were to be assigned, but then she'd never get the chance to compete at JW and the USFS probably wants her on that team for 2014 and 2015 potentially. Plus, she's still competing as a junior domestically this season, so technically she'd have to test up before the event if she were to skate at SA, same goes for Mariah Bell.

The only person you mentioned who would be a logical consideration would be Yasmin Siraj, she's competing as a senior at Nationals and has already done 2 seasons on the JGP and probably isn't that likely to make the JW team anyway, so SA would be a good opportunity for her. Cesario and Baga also would have made sense, but they opted for JGP instead and thus cannot be considered (maybe they hope to go to JW this season?).

DORISPULASKI
09-23-2012, 09:20 PM
The main point I was making is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to reassign SA at this time.

If the only hope is Mirai, why bother? She doesn't need 2 events to qualify for worlds, and isn't likely to score well enough to make the GPF.

Sylvia
09-23-2012, 09:30 PM
If she competed on the senior GP, then also do to new rules, she couldn't compete at JW either. So that doesn't make sense. Anyone who wants to be considered for JW can't compete in a senior ISU competition before JW happens b/c that would make them ineligible.
I don't believe this particular proposal passed at the 2012 ISU Congress? Does anyone know for sure? I couldn't find it in the current ISU Rulebook online. ETA: It was supposed to apply to skaters that had competed in a senior international two times -- the original proposal can be read here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3468897&postcount=1


I think the age rule regarding GP hasn't changed yet,
Correct. Rule 108 in the ISU Rulebook states:
Effective July 1st, 2014 the following applies:
1. Categories of Skaters by Age and Age Entry Requirements for
Competitions
a) The word “Senior” is used in this Rule and in the ISU Statutes to
describe certain competitions that have a minimum age entry
requirement of fifteen (15) years, determined in each instance by the
birthday of the Skater that occurs before the July 1st
that immediately precedes the relevant competition.


Plus, she's still competing as a junior domestically this season, so technically she'd have to test up before the event if she were to skate at SA, same goes for Mariah Bell.
Incorrect. Competing as a senior internationally only requires that a skater meet the ISU age requirements; there is no international test requirement. That's why Gracie Gold was allowed to compete as a senior internationally at World Team Trophy in April 2012 (she took and passed her USFS Senior FS test this past summer in order to compete nationally as a Senior this season).

Coco
09-23-2012, 09:37 PM
The main point I was making is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to reassign SA at this time.

If the only hope is Mirai, why bother? She doesn't need 2 events to qualify for worlds, and isn't likely to score well enough to make the GPF.

Well, it always helps to have a cushion. Also, insane political events may prevent her from safely taking part in Cup of China due to her Japanese heritage.

Maybe she'll get invited to TEB, leaving SA for Rachael or ... as a gift the USFSA can bestow on some other federation who has a judge at worlds :sekret:

It's not the 6.0 system, but if Rachael can't land a triple, she doesn't belong at a GP event. A performance that outclassed will harm how judges perceive her and make the US program a laughing stock.