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View Full Version : Olympic Champion SURVIVOR: LADIES Round 5



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sk8ingcoach
08-14-2012, 02:02 AM
Im sorry but you cant use the excuse of figures to say that fleming and Witt are better than yuna. If compulsory figures were still in competitions, im sure yuna would have spent hours and hours on them like everyone else had to. Of course her figures arent going to be as good as fleming of witt, because she doesnt need it.

l'etoile
08-14-2012, 02:15 AM
Im sorry but you cant use the excuse of figures to say that fleming and Witt are better than yuna. If compulsory figures were still in competitions, im sure yuna would have spent hours and hours on them like everyone else had to. Of course her figures arent going to be as good as fleming of witt, because she doesnt need it.

Similar analogy also applies. Well it goes around and comes around. If Peggy, Hamil, or Witt had lived in more current era, they probably would have upped their caliber with 3-3s to win.

We don't necessarily need to solely look into these champions' technical abilities or how excellent they were in figures. Dominance, their iconic position in their victories, ability to fully show and present their potential when the time came. These are easier to compare them with.

AndyWarhol
08-14-2012, 03:37 AM
I voted Yuna.. not a fan.

judgejudy27
08-14-2012, 03:44 AM
One word: figures. Put 2010 Yuna in an 80s comp and she's so far back after the first segment that there's no point continuing to skate.

LOL and you know Yu Na would have been defective at figures how exactly. :lol: Even if she didnt show excellent basic skating which would seemingly lend itself to strong figures if she came up in that era, you would still wouldnt have anyway to tell unless she was Surya Bonaly. Nobody would watch the free skating of Schuba and Lynn and imagine Lynn would be so poor in figures and Schuba so great. That is unless you are admiting the way the sport was then, so rife with politics that a Korean skater would be certain to be buried in figures that they would be certain to never become a big name (probably true in fact, but that only mocks the credability of results in the figures era, and in no way is a mark against Yu Na's skating ability).

One thing for sure, the likelihood of Yu Na being worse in figures than Witt would be next to nothing, given how pathetic Katarina Witt's figures were. Granted she wouldnt have the communist bloc and being the sex symbol of sports at the time to save her if she was anywhere near that bad. Since we are going into fantasy what ifs, an even more likely one is if Witt were from Korea nobody would have ever heard of her, or had she been born in the era of the jumps likewise she would be a nobody today. Only being born in the country she was, having the coach she had, skating when she did, and being born with the looks she did, could she have become a great champion.

mazzy
08-14-2012, 04:49 AM
Im sorry but you cant use the excuse of figures to say that fleming and Witt are better than yuna. If compulsory figures were still in competitions, im sure yuna would have spent hours and hours on them like everyone else had to. Of course her figures arent going to be as good as fleming of witt, because she doesnt need it.
I haven't actually claimed that Yuna was worse than Witt or Fleming. I believe that the whole comparison of is somewhat pointless. Thus making claims like judgejudy has:

I LOL at the idea she was a weaker skater than Fleming or Witt even considering the eras they skated in.
is ridiculous. Yuna -as we know her- would have been slaughtered in Witt's or Fleming's era because she would be competing in a totally different sport.
Now had Yuna been brought up as a competitive skater in the figures era, she obviously would have devoted most of her time to figures...but then she'd probably also be a way weaker jumper and free skater in general. That's pure speculation we'd be indulging in.
Kim's actually my favourite skater from that list. I just cannot say that she's clearly superior to the other ladies. She's never had to acquire some of the skills that were fundamental to them.


LOL and you know Yu Na would have been defective at figures how exactly.
I said Yuna of 2010 would not be competitive in figures, which is a fair assumption given she's never had to practice them. As to the rest, see above. We aren't comparing hypothetical skaters that could have been totally different under whatever circumstances, which makes your claim of Yunas clear superiority considering the others' era ridiculous. As to the big konspiracy in favour of Schuba from mighty Austria or Witt from mighty GDR :lol:. Lacking any proof of them being upheld in figures, I'm more inclined to go with those that were around at the time. Especially Schuba is recognized for being and outstanding figures skater. The woman does deserve some respect.

DickButtonFan
08-14-2012, 07:23 AM
I voted off Hamill because I feel she's the one who least changed skating.

I think Witt will win this even tho I'm not into her skating. Winning two olympic Gold = she was one tough lady.

l'etoile
08-14-2012, 07:35 AM
I voted Yuna.. not a fan.

This, is, the most logical reason I've ever seen:rolleyes:

judgejudy27
08-14-2012, 01:58 PM
I said Yuna of 2010 would not be competitive in figures, which is a fair assumption given she's never had to practice them.

Which is a ridiculous statement with NO relevance on your behalf as figures arent even a part of competition today, so why should she be evaluated on something she wasnt even asked to practice nor compete. By contrast free skating was still the majority of the score back then, atleast when Witt and Hamill skated, so it is far to evaluated both women by the quality of their free skating atleast for their own eras (which even for her own era was nothing great when it comes to Witt, I already admited I am impressed with Hamill), and in the case of those who can be evaluated by figures neither Witt or Hamill were great at those either, while Fleming obviously was.


As to the rest, see above. We aren't comparing hypothetical skaters that could have been totally different under whatever circumstances, which makes your claim of Yunas clear superiority considering the others' era ridiculous.

I said even considering eras the caliber of her skating is easily superior to the others on this list, except for possibly Hamill. That isnt such a complicated statement.


As to the big konspiracy in favour of Schuba from mighty Austria or Witt from mighty GDR :lol:.

I never implied Schuba was held up in figures. I know her figures were absolutely briliant. I stated her as an example that one cant always tell the quailty of figures just by watching free skating. Learn to read.


Lacking any proof of them being upheld in figures, I'm more inclined to go with those that were around at the time.

LOL everyone who was around at the time was aware that Witt was propped up in figures placings often. As for proof watch the video of her laughable compulsory figures in Calgary where she almost came to a dead stop on several occasions and traced tiny uneven tracings. I doubt her figures were even any better than Midori Ito's. There are other videos of her doing figures, and they are all unimpressive to put it mildly. As already mentioned I never stated or implied Schuba was held up in figures, and in fact I stated previously it was ridiculous the greatest figures skater ever was voted off so soon, even if her free skating was a duck.

skateboy
08-14-2012, 09:10 PM
As already mentioned I never stated or implied Schuba was held up in figures, and in fact I stated previously it was ridiculous the greatest figures skater ever was voted off so soon, even if her free skating was a duck.

This. Toller Cranston even stated that, if anything, Schuba was undermarked for her figures. she was THAT good.

berthesghost
08-14-2012, 10:53 PM
Winning two olympic Gold = she was one tough lady.or

Winning two olympic Gold = she was one lucky lady.

The skating itself was never much to write home about.

kwanette
08-15-2012, 06:41 PM
or

Winning two olympic Gold = she was one lucky lady.

The skating itself was never much to write home about.

:)

skateboy
08-15-2012, 08:14 PM
Just about 9 hours left to get your votes in!