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ioana
08-07-2012, 01:15 AM
I'd gladly support any athlete that stands on top a medal stand and thanks the Flying Spaghetti Monster or pulls a Kathy Griffin.

God has to put the Cookie Monster in their life first. You can't just randomly go out and seek help from food monsters. It has to be divinely ordained.

Lanna
08-07-2012, 01:38 AM
Really? Then what was this:



Oh, that was you saying exactly that. That his rights are being threatened.




False analogy. It's a lot more like Christian people wearing a cross which I'm sure no one here would have any problem with. Entirely different.





Let's try this again. No one, no one, has tried to FORCE HIM not to make these comments. Specifically, the US government has not tried to FORCE HIM to stop making these statement. While you are displaying your knowledge of the first amendment, you should try to understand that Ryan Hall is granted only the right to say what he wants without fear of government persecution. You don't need to bring up his freedom of religion or defend his right to make these comments in any way because his rights have not been challenged. No one has said "Ryan Hall cannot make these comments, he does not have the right". We have said "Ryan Hall might want to reconsider making these comments, it makes people uncomfortable". We have said "this is Ryan Hall's private business and he should keep it private in order to not offend people". We have even said "Ryan Hall makes himself sound like he's closer to having delusions than to having religion."

We have not said "Ryan Hall does not have the right to discuss religion" or "Ryan Hall should be stopped from discussing religion." So you don't need to defend him using laws that do not apply. His freedom of religion and freedom of speech are not under threat.

And, as a member of a vast majority in the United States, his the members of his community enjoy a large amount of privilege. So excuse me if you feel that he is being persecuted because people are being mean to him. But since actual people are actually being persecuted all over the world (including by outspoken members of his faith although I know that not all Christians are like that), excuse me if I don't get around to feeling bad for him that not everyone in the world likes him.

My freedom of speech protects my right to discuss the fact that I am offended by his speech. But I'm not worried about it, since the government isn't trying to shut down this discussion, only a couple of posters on the internet. So I know my right has not been threatened.

:respec:

flipforsynchro
08-07-2012, 01:53 AM
This thread is more mocking than disagreeing IMO, but I do think that Hall is delusional.

suep1963
08-07-2012, 02:35 AM
What I don't get is why we have to mock anyone for being different. Sure, for your standards, you may think he is delusional, crazy or whatever, but mocking is just another form of bullying.

And it seems to be OK to all jump on the bandwagon and get that mob mentality going. So the guy is different. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter to anyone here? Has his statement affected you adversely? At the end of the day, does mocking a total stranger make you a better person? A more important person? Do you have such a need to feel superior and oh so better?

I can understand people not being comfortable with someone else evangelizing--that I get. Everyone has their own beliefs/nonbeliefs/whateverbeliefs. And goodness knows when I see a pair of well dressed people on my doorstep with a Bible in their hand, my first reaction is :scream: What I don't get is the need to denigrate any person for what they believe/don't believe or how they choose to express that.

March_Hare
08-07-2012, 02:44 AM
:rofl: please show me where the "right to go on CNN and talk about how you are coached by the voices in your head without anyone being meeeeeaaaannnnnn to you" is in the constitution.

Nobody's right to ANYTHING is being "trampled on" because the right to universal popularity doesn't exist. Neither does the freedom from criticism.


I don't care what people believe. They are welcome to it. But giving the intimate details of their relationship with their diety is just as unpleasant to me as having someone give the intimate details of their sex life in an interview. Whatever you do in private, good for you. But I am going to judge the hell out of you if you talk about it in public.

This! Bravo :)

Allskate
08-07-2012, 03:04 AM
So, if he falls flat on his face or gets struck by lightning then God has moved on to another sport?

Perhaps it means that God has decided to start coaching a different athlete in the same sport?


TG, I understand your frustration. I am really tired of people perverting the constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and freedom of religion to mean that nobody can criticize what they say.

Athletes who are very vocal about their Christian beliefs know that some people aren't going to care for it. But they also know that lots of other people are going to become supporters precisely because of what they are saying about their faith. Tim Tebow is a prime example. There are people, including some of his own teammates, who don't care for how repeatedly vocal he is about his religion while he's playing football, but there are lots of people who have become big fans of his because of it.

jeffisjeff
08-07-2012, 03:12 AM
Athletes who are very vocal about their Christian beliefs know that some people aren't going to care for it. But they also know that lots of other people are going to become supporters precisely because of what they are saying about their faith. Tim Tebow is a prime example.

But is that why they are vocal, because it will bring supporters? I think that Tebow's public professions of faith are genuine and that he initially probably had no idea the stir they would create. But the supporters they have created haven't done him any favors. :lol:

museksk8r
08-07-2012, 03:16 AM
Perhaps it means that God has decided to start coaching a different athlete in the same sport?


TG, I understand your frustration. I am really tired of people perverting the constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and freedom of religion to mean that nobody can criticize what they say.

Athletes who are very vocal about their Christian beliefs know that some people aren't going to care for it. But they also know that lots of other people are going to become supporters precisely because of what they are saying about their faith. Tim Tebow is a prime example. There are people, including some of his own teammates, who don't care for how repeatedly vocal he is about his religion while he's playing football, but there are lots of people who have become big fans of his because of it.

For real! I know several women who don't care a thing about football, but who are religious and they absolutely LOVE Tim Tebow. Not only is God a formidable coach, but also a marketing jackpot for athletes, politicians, televangelists, (insert public figure here).

4rkidz
08-07-2012, 03:21 AM
Bad idea to have God as your coach. Can you imagine firing him?

:lol:


Because it is so stupid. If there is a God surely he has better things to be doing with his time than coaching a marathon runner. :P

As for me mocking people's religious faith, well sometimes things deserves to be mocked. Like now. :rofl:

:rofl:


if god exists, he/she needs to spend less time at sporting event and more time on something useful

is it only american athletes that obnoxiously have god on their side? i dont really hear it from athletes from other countries

although others have said all countries do it.. it does seem to me to be an American thing :shuffle: Having lived in a few different countries.. seems to particularly inflict those playing American football ;)


:rofl: please show me where the "right to go on CNN and talk about how you are coached by the voices in your head without anyone being meeeeeaaaannnnnn to you" is in the constitution.

Nobody's right to ANYTHING is being "trampled on" because the right to universal popularity doesn't exist. Neither does the freedom from criticism.

I don't care what people believe. They are welcome to it. But giving the intimate details of their relationship with their diety is just as unpleasant to me as having someone give the intimate details of their sex life in an interview. Whatever you do in private, good for you. But I am going to judge the hell out of you if you talk about it in public.

ITA with this.. :cool:

centerstage01
08-07-2012, 03:21 AM
What I don't get is why we have to mock anyone for being different. Sure, for your standards, you may think he is delusional, crazy or whatever, but mocking is just another form of bullying.

And it seems to be OK to all jump on the bandwagon and get that mob mentality going. So the guy is different. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter to anyone here? Has his statement affected you adversely? At the end of the day, does mocking a total stranger make you a better person? A more important person? Do you have such a need to feel superior and oh so better?

I can understand people not being comfortable with someone else evangelizing--that I get. Everyone has their own beliefs/nonbeliefs/whateverbeliefs. And goodness knows when I see a pair of well dressed people on my doorstep with a Bible in their hand, my first reaction is :scream: What I don't get is the need to denigrate any person for what they believe/don't believe or how they choose to express that.

:respec: Thank you. Now, can we please get this thread closed as it serves no purpose except to have people sniping at each other?

Allskate
08-07-2012, 03:22 AM
But is that why they are vocal, because it will bring supporters? I think that Tebow's public professions of faith are genuine. But the supporters they have created haven't done him any favors. :lol:

I think it's a little bit of both. I will bet you anything that there are some athletes, actors, and singers who have been encouraged by their publicists and others to make religious statements because it will be good for their careers. But, I also have no doubt that there are people doing this whose faith is genuine and think they're doing lots of people a favor by sharing their religious widsom with millions of other people.

Sometimes people come across sincere and sometimes not. Sometimes they come across as arrogant and annoying and sometimes not.

I have no doubt that Tim Tebow's faith is genuine. However, maybe because he plays a team sport and some of his teammates are tired and annoyed by his persistence when he's with them, I find him a bit on the arrogant and annoying side.

berthesghost
08-07-2012, 03:27 AM
:respec: Thank you. Now, can we please get this thread closed as it serves no purpose except to have people sniping at each other?
Ah, close the thread because I choose to come in it but don't like it routine. :lol: now my constitutional rights to mock a celebrity on a public forum is being taken away! :P

centerstage01
08-07-2012, 03:33 AM
Look, it's the Olympics. I want to read about sports here. This thread isn't talking about Ryan Hall's chances in the marathon, if anyone's seen him training, how his chances are to either medal or place high in the standings. It's been derailed to argue about religion. Best as I can tell, he didn't go to CNN and demand to have them do a story about his quest at the Olympics, they came to him. So he told his story. And now it's getting sneered at.

It's not how I would train were I competing at such a huge event, but it's how he's choosing to do it. Like it or not, he's asking God for help. I cannot figure out why this is such a contentious issue. You think he's an idiot, many people don't. LET IT GO.

ioana
08-07-2012, 03:37 AM
Look, it's the Olympics. I want to read about sports here. This thread isn't talking about Ryan Hall's chances in the marathon, if anyone's seen him training, how his chances are to either medal or place high in the standings. It's been derailed to argue about religion.

First off, the thread title mentions the quote about God being his coach. Why would you expect the thread to focus on other things? That's like heading into a costume thread and complaining about posters not focusing on a skater's edges.

jeffisjeff
08-07-2012, 03:39 AM
I find him a bit on the arrogant and annoying side.

Oh, yeah, I'm definitely no Tebow fan. But I put a lot of the blame for that on his :yikes: fans.