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vesperholly
08-06-2012, 09:02 PM
I don't see anyone being "argumentative" other than disagreeing with Hall's statements and your statements, and explaining why. So apparently if people do not agree they should just shut up :rolleyes:

Never in my life will I understand how people who belong to a vast majority group (75% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States)), in a country that clearly gives them a large stage for their opinions, whinge on about their rights being repressed. :lol:

millyskate
08-06-2012, 09:03 PM
The OP posted the link and expressed his opinion of it. I don't see anything inviting posters to "make fun" of Hall's beliefs.


" .
This thread is clearly an invitation to make fun, as allezfred's statement "sometimes things deserve to be mocked" confirms.




As for me mocking people's religious faith, well sometimes things deserves to be mocked. Like now. :rofl:



I understand people getting irritated with religious statements by athletes. To people who share those beliefs, they are often encouraging.

It's however misleading to say that overtly religious athletes only quote God in times of victory. They consistently refer to him when given the chance, in loss like in victory. When they lose, they just get interviewed in less detail.
Part of christian belief is that God gives and takes away - that you don't deserve for good things to happen, but that when they do they are gifts from God and you should thank him for that. Hence them thanking him when given the chance.

Moreover, I'm yet to hear an athlete say God made them win. They generally say God allowed them to win, helped them in their preparation, or something similar. That's very different!

When christian athletes or personalities go public with their faith, they expect mockery - they know it won't be universally popular. I believe it's always a deliberate, measured personal decision.

ioana
08-06-2012, 09:37 PM
Moreover, I'm yet to hear and athlete say God made them win. They generally say God allowed them to win, helped them in their preparation, or something similar.

Not sure how many professional American sports you got to see (i.e. NFL, MLB), but believe me they do say things like "Jesus was with our team on that last drive." Quite literally.

dbell1
08-06-2012, 09:46 PM
Well, there are a lot of baseball players named Jesus... :shuffle:

skatesindreams
08-06-2012, 09:52 PM
If you are "disturbed" by his beliefs, or how he expresses them, why bring attention to him?
Just ignore...

ioana
08-06-2012, 09:57 PM
Well, there are a lot of baseball players named Jesus... :shuffle:

That's Jesús. Maybe all of this is a case of mistaken identity? Any track coaches whose names sound similar to God :P?

mazzy
08-06-2012, 10:04 PM
I think if god wanted him to run marathon he'd have made him born Kenyan in the first place.

Lanna
08-06-2012, 10:24 PM
Never in my life will I understand how people who belong to a vast majority group (75% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States)), in a country that clearly gives them a large stage for their opinions, whinge on about their rights being repressed. :lol:

Christians are a very repressed super majority :drama:

So long as Christmas remains a federal holiday and I have to use vacation days for my holidays, Christian wuzrobbing can cry me a fecking river.

I'd love for someone to give an interview:
"What's your relationship with god?"
"Argumentative."
"Oh?"
"Yeah, we don't get along."
"I'm so sorry to hear that."
"It's okay. We're in counseling."

Ziggy
08-06-2012, 11:23 PM
although a lot of athletes who do thank god after a meet seem to have a god that sounds like santa claus who grants all their wishes

And if anything, it's this which should be offensive to religious people.

danceronice
08-06-2012, 11:23 PM
The OP posted the link and expressed his opinion of it. I don't see anything inviting posters to "make fun" of Hall's beliefs.



And some people are disagreeing with that perspective. Disagreement does not equal making "a joke".


The people mocking him are mocking him. Not "disagreeing", at least not in an intelligent, adult manner. Disagreement is not usually accompanied by :rofl: and :P. I notice that they don't mock the headscarves worn by female Muslim athletes, which is just as much a public profession of faith.

As for "keeping it private", freedom OF religion does NOT mean freedom FROM religion. There is no law requiring people to restrict public statements to things left-wing atheists don't find offensive. Unless they're on your private property (your TV doesn't count) people have the right to say whatever they want about their religion or lack thereof. The first amendment prohibits the government from establishing a church or requiring church membership for government service, it doesn't require everyone behave like an atheist in public and only express religious beliefs in a whisper behind closed doors. There are plenty of offensive behaviors the same people mocking Ryan Hall would defend violently as free expression, choice, whatever. Just as the people offended by THOSE behaviors don't have the right to never be offended, people who are phobic about any sort of religious expression don't have the right to make others hide it.

Norlite
08-06-2012, 11:48 PM
So now his rights to be interviewed on CNN about his 'coach' are being trampled on? I bet if it were Michael Phelps talking about his coach you wouldn't have a problem with it?

FIN!


Not sure why you're quoting me there. I never said a word or even suggested why he shouldn't be interviewed by anyone.

And as for Phelps, not particularly interested in swimming, or swimmers, particularly swimmers from other countries no matter how decorated.

Theatregirl1122
08-07-2012, 12:41 AM
I never said such a thing.

Really? Then what was this:


So now his rights to be interviewed on CNN about his 'coach' are being trampled on?

Oh, that was you saying exactly that. That his rights are being threatened.



I notice that they don't mock the headscarves worn by female Muslim athletes, which is just as much a public profession of faith.

False analogy. It's a lot more like Christian people wearing a cross which I'm sure no one here would have any problem with. Entirely different.



As for "keeping it private", freedom OF religion does NOT mean freedom FROM religion. There is no law requiring people to restrict public statements to things left-wing atheists don't find offensive. Unless they're on your private property (your TV doesn't count) people have the right to say whatever they want about their religion or lack thereof. The first amendment prohibits the government from establishing a church or requiring church membership for government service, it doesn't require everyone behave like an atheist in public and only express religious beliefs in a whisper behind closed doors. There are plenty of offensive behaviors the same people mocking Ryan Hall would defend violently as free expression, choice, whatever. Just as the people offended by THOSE behaviors don't have the right to never be offended, people who are phobic about any sort of religious expression don't have the right to make others hide it.


Let's try this again. No one, no one, has tried to FORCE HIM not to make these comments. Specifically, the US government has not tried to FORCE HIM to stop making these statement. While you are displaying your knowledge of the first amendment, you should try to understand that Ryan Hall is granted only the right to say what he wants without fear of government persecution. You don't need to bring up his freedom of religion or defend his right to make these comments in any way because his rights have not been challenged. No one has said "Ryan Hall cannot make these comments, he does not have the right". We have said "Ryan Hall might want to reconsider making these comments, it makes people uncomfortable". We have said "this is Ryan Hall's private business and he should keep it private in order to not offend people". We have even said "Ryan Hall makes himself sound like he's closer to having delusions than to having religion."

We have not said "Ryan Hall does not have the right to discuss religion" or "Ryan Hall should be stopped from discussing religion." So you don't need to defend him using laws that do not apply. His freedom of religion and freedom of speech are not under threat.

And, as a member of a vast majority in the United States, the members of his community enjoy a large amount of privilege. So excuse me if you feel that he is being persecuted because people are being mean to him. But since actual people are actually being persecuted all over the world (including by outspoken members of his faith although I know that not all Christians are like that), excuse me if I don't get around to feeling bad for him that not everyone in the world likes him.

My freedom of speech protects my right to discuss the fact that I am offended by his speech. But I'm not worried about it, since the government isn't trying to shut down this discussion, only a couple of posters on the internet. So I know my right has not been threatened.

AYS
08-07-2012, 12:49 AM
TG, while your very well reasoned and well supported post is laudable and I completely agree with it, as usual, we already know the fallback argument here. We are, simply, mean :drama: for expressing our thoughts and opinions about these comments.

Great post.

overedge
08-07-2012, 12:50 AM
The people mocking him are mocking him. Not "disagreeing", at least not in an intelligent, adult manner. Disagreement is not usually accompanied by :rofl: and :P.
Clearly we have a very different understanding of "disagreeing". Or are people only allowed to disagree if they do so in a way that meets your standards of behavior?

CantALoop
08-07-2012, 01:09 AM
American athletes thanking God is nothing new, but God as a coach? :rofl:

Maybe he imagines that he's doing the Stations of the Cross as he approaches the final miles. :P

I'd gladly support any athlete that stands on top a medal stand and thanks the Flying Spaghetti Monster or pulls a Kathy Griffin.