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zizi31
08-04-2012, 06:22 AM
Well, my sisters are both fans every four year and they do believe what NBC says like gospel. I've had to educate them. It's been very painful for me.

I bet that when Jordyn broke down publicly and sobbed for all to see no one called her a crybaby bitch diva... In fact, people felt really sorry for her. So what's the difference?

For me the difference was that:
Jordyn's outburst seemed shorter and she tried to hide it. This was in contrast to repeated, open sobbing by Komova and her teammate.
Also, Jordyn lost out on a chance to compete in the all-around. That seems much worse than winning the silver medal.
She also gave a pretty classy interview right after getting the bad news.

It's not that I think that crying makes Komova and Mustafina "spoiled" or whatever. It just makes me more worried about them, and I feel sorry for them moreso than for Jordyn, who seems much stronger and seems to have a healthier outlook. They seemed terrified and anxious throughout the competition, they were heartbroken to win silver (SILVER!) at the olympics, and they just seemed much more emotionally frail than the US girls. Although they had complimentary things to say about Gabby, Komova took off her medal right away and tweeted about people "never forgiving her". That's just so sad to me, and I hope that despite all the crying, she can one day see that she has accomplished something great. I guess what it comes down to is that the Jordyn's tears seemed to stem from a disappointment that she was able to put in perspective pretty quickly (although she probably still feels disappointed). Whereas Komova's tears and subsequent behavior suggest that she has been under WAY too much pressure, and feels like she's let everyone down completely. That's why her crying throughout the competition has worried me more than Jordyn's. Of course, I could be reading way too much into this.

ETA: Also, Raisman lost a medal in a tie to end up with no medal at all, but I didn't see any tears from her. I guess I think of emotionally strong people/competitors as people who can hold it together in public even under disappointing circumstances and don't sob constantly. Nothing wrong with not being able to be that way thought - it doesn't make them bad sports, and they're still very young.

skfan
08-04-2012, 06:26 AM
Do they, though? I'm a 4 year fan, and I certainly don't trust everything that NBC says. Also, it didn't come across to me that Mustafina was being referred to as a "diva" in a derogatory way. It seemed almost complimentary.



i said the same in the other thread before it was closed. i can make up my own mind without depending on NBC fluffers.

Jimena
08-04-2012, 06:31 AM
As far as the cry baby thing. Jordan cried once and sucked it up as quickly as she could. She was seen in the background trying her best to pull it together. The Russians cry every time the camera is on them, it seems. I hope no one thought Komova was being a cry baby after the AA, though. She was THIS CLOSE to winning and she just did the FX routine of her life. She probably had no idea what exact score she needed but she had to know she did all she could and it was going to be close. I can't blame her for crying in that moment, not even bawling. I would have, too.

I think the bolded part above (my emphasis) is a pretty clear exaggeration. Don't you think the Russian's sucked it up as quickly as they could as well? Jordyn couldn't really stop crying even when she was being interviewed (and I think she did a fantastic job at sucking it up so I'm not criticizing her at all). She was crying all the way through Raisman's interview, which classy NBC framed with Wieber in the background. :rolleyes:

Diva behavior is not a good thing for a lot of people. It means unnecessary drama and attention-whorish behavior to most of the people around me. Yes, it can be used positively (especially by my gay friends :lol:). But when it's put together with the following: descriptions of gym drama, Mustafina's alleged difficult character (mentioned 3 times by Elfi already- and I skip the commentary for the most part so who knows how many times it's been mentioned), the replay of Musty not wanting her coach to touch her and mentioning all the tears in the gym, do you think people are going to react to it positively? Seriously?

Don't you think that these descriptions have, I don't know, suggested a picture of Musty and Komova that is less than flattering in the public's mind?

I think that the difference, IMO, is that people know Jordyn and expected her to do well. She didn't and people felt for her and were disappointed for her. So her crying is understandable and people focus on how gracious she was. People don't know the Russians and are actively rooting against them because they want the US to win really badly. That empathy is just not there, especially on the internet when you can let your worse instincts loose without any policing.


She also gave a pretty classy interview right after getting the bad news.

FWIW, Komova and Mustafina also gave a pretty classy interview. We just didn't see it on TV.

As far as Raisman, she's cried plenty. She just tends to cry when she's very happy. Different strokes and all.

BigB08822
08-04-2012, 06:37 AM
Well there was also that video of the Russians practicing before London and they each were shown crying more than a few times. Then add that in with the interviews from her (Mustafina) very own coach who mentions that she spends an awful lot of time crying and being stubborn in the gym (plus the scene of her swiping his arm away after beam), why is it a surprise if people think she cries a lot and is hard to deal with at times? It seems she IS that type of person. I don't get why this is a bad thing? It is just how she is but it isn't some NBC propaganda. Champions are not always full of smiles, they get to the top by being harder on themselves than anyone else and that often means lots of attitude and crying. I honestly think it says more about the people who interpret it to be something so horrible than it does about NBC or the gymnasts themselves.

zizi31
08-04-2012, 06:40 AM
I think the bolded part above (my emphasis) is a pretty clear exaggeration. Don't you think the Russian's sucked it up as quickly as they could as well? Jordyn couldn't really stop crying even when she was being interviewed (and I think she did a fantastic job at sucking it up so I'm not criticizing her at all). She was crying all the way through Raisman's interview (which classy NBC framed with Wieber in the background :rolleyes:).

Diva behavior is not a good thing for a lot of people. It means unnecessary drama and attention-whorish behavior to most of the people around me. Yes, it can be used positively (especially by my gay friends :lol:). But when it's put together with the following: descriptions of gym drama, Mustafina's alleged difficult character (mentioned 3 times by Elfi already- and I skip the commentary for the most part so who knows how many times it's been mentioned), the replay of Musty not wanting her coach to touch her and mentioning all the tears in the gym, do you think people are going to react to it positively? Seriously?

Don't you think that these descriptions have, I don't know, suggested a picture of Musty and Komova that is less than flattering in the public's mind?

I think that the difference, IMO, is that people know Jordyn and expected her to do well. She didn't and people felt for her and were disappointed for her. So her crying is understandable and people focus on how gracious she was. People don't know the Russians and are actively rooting against them because they want the US to win really badly. That empathy is just not there, especially on the internet when you can let your worse instincts loose without any policing.

Not to me. I had never heard of Musty before the olympics, and I liked her right away because of the fluff piece about her being a diva, and was rooting for her to get a medal. But then again, I like people who are strong and stubborn and temperamental and want to do things their own way, even if they don't have the typical sunshine-y personality. She also seemed close enough to her coach that they don't need superficial displays of hugging for the cameras to prove that they're a good team and respect each other. It would have been a good PR move for her control herself for a second to stop and talk to him, but it didn't seriously affect my opinion of her. Everyone is going to react differently, but I just don' think that the NBC fluff will have the effect of getting the majority of the audience to dislike her if that was even the intended effect. The only people who will dislike her based on that are those who were inclined to dislike her anyways.

Jimena
08-04-2012, 06:50 AM
Not to me.

Well, then you're a much more independent person than the casual fans I'm surrounded by. They had a very negative view of her and fell for the diva/bitch/crybaby description hook, line and sinker.

Look, no one likes to be told that their thinking is affected by what's presented on TV because we all take our ability to think independently very seriously. I'm including myself in this group, obviously. I'm not saying that any of the people on this board were influenced by what was said by NBC. For crying out loud, most of us here hate the idiotic trio of announcers and know the gymnasts from way before they became olympians. So no one here should take what I'm saying personally.

zizi31
08-04-2012, 07:07 AM
Interesting article about Komova, Mustafina, and their training situation:
http://www.thecouchgymnast.com/?p=6136

It sounds very stressful, and may explain why they cry so much. :(

Here's a very telling quote from a coach:
"Aliya has grown during the year, but her character has not changed. (There is) endless sobbing: if something does not work, she sits down and cries. All while under pressure (stick)."

Um yeah, I'd cry too if I were "under (figurative) stick".

caseyedwards
08-04-2012, 08:12 AM
For me the difference was that:
Jordyn's outburst seemed shorter and she tried to hide it. This was in contrast to repeated, open sobbing by Komova and her teammate.
Also, Jordyn lost out on a chance to compete in the all-around. That seems much worse than winning the silver medal.
She also gave a pretty classy interview right after getting the bad news.

It's not that I think that crying makes Komova and Mustafina "spoiled" or whatever. It just makes me more worried about them, and I feel sorry for them moreso than for Jordyn, who seems much stronger and seems to have a healthier outlook. They seemed terrified and anxious throughout the competition, they were heartbroken to win silver (SILVER!) at the olympics, and they just seemed much more emotionally frail than the US girls. Although they

young.

They were not happy to lose. Coming in second is the worst place! So many people have said they couldn't look at their silver medals because it was "close, but no!" and that bronze medalist are much happier. Gold Medalists are happy, bronze is happy but silver means first loser. Olympic silver has prestige and means you won that medal but not that you won. You lost your event.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/vancouver/2010-02-22-bronze-vs-silver_N.htm

Article with some studies about how people react to medals using the 2010 Winter Olympics. Lots of athletes are mentioned.

Loves_Shizuka
08-04-2012, 08:15 AM
This sure is alot of psycho-analysis of a 17 year old girl crying in a thread of a competiton that is yet to happen...

:slinkaway

ioana
08-04-2012, 03:24 PM
This sure is alot of psycho-analysis of a 17 year old girl crying in a thread of a competiton that is yet to happen...

:slinkaway

And comparison of apparent crying times based on NBC coverage...:shuffle: We'll find out starting Monday (none of them made VT finals), but I'm hoping actual EFs mean we start focusing on those instead. Pretty please? :)

bek
08-04-2012, 03:30 PM
For me the difference was that:
Jordyn's outburst seemed shorter and she tried to hide it. This was in contrast to repeated, open sobbing by Komova and her teammate.
Also, Jordyn lost out on a chance to compete in the all-around. That seems much worse than winning the silver medal.
She also gave a pretty classy interview right after getting the bad news.

Jorydn and Komova also come very different cultures. However I will say this Mustafina has never EVER said a bad word about a competitor and also has always been classy in defeat. She complimented the American team after their win. She and Komova both also complimented Gabby Douglas and said she deserved to win. Saying she performed beautifully Even last year when a lot of people thought Komova was robbed and I'm sure including Komova, Komova took responsibility for her loss.

As for Mustafina and her coach some are saying it wasn't swipe away but more a flick away. Look this girl was upset and had another event she had to concentrate and think about. She didn't want to be consoled. Understand too these girls live away from their parents. Their coaches are in a lot of ways their parents. When your family at times you can do things that maybe you wouldn't do with a stranger. You realize too that NBC was likely camera focused on Mustafina waiting for her to do something like that?

And yes Komova has been under ridiculous amounts of pressure. She's been called the savior of Russian gymnastics since she was about 13/14. As a Junior she Never. Lost. But then the injuries happened and obviously they were bad ones because it kept her from doing all her routines this year at Euros etc. Silver is great when silver is the best you can do. But when you are as talented as Komova-anything other than Gold in the AA is a disappointment.

The point is yes these girls are tempermental have their issues... But Mustafina especially clearly has her good qualities. Look at how Aliya and Komova are together. As I said before even when Mustafina was winning as a Senior it was still Komova, Komova, Komova. And really Komova is better than her. But clearly as you watch Mustafina come up and hold Komova while waiting for that girl those two are likely as close as sisters.

Yes Mustafina has definite diva behavior.. Absolutely but the girl has other sides of her two that she presents to the gymnastics world. Including the fact that she's never said a bad word about her competitors and always been gracious when she lost....She doesn't deserve to be treated as just a caricture.

ks1227
08-04-2012, 03:34 PM
Any chance we could move all further discussion of the women's team and AA events, including NBC coverage of them, to the appropriate threads for those who wish to keep rehashing (though I'm not sure what's left to rehash) and focus on apparatus finals here? Please?

I'm looking forward to getting up in the morning for Women's vault as well as Men's floor and pommel horse!

my little pony
08-04-2012, 03:56 PM
This sure is alot of psycho-analysis of a 17 year old girl crying in a thread of a competiton that is yet to happen...

:slinkaway

isnt it the truth!

i taught 11th and 12th grade and i saw a lot of random crying over far less significant events than the olympics

i once had a senior cry in class because in economics she was supposed to explain how some policy would affect a farmer and she didnt want people to think she was really a farmer :confused:

Loves_Shizuka
08-04-2012, 04:05 PM
i once had a senior cry in class because in economics she was supposed to explain how some policy would affect a farmer and she didnt want people to think she was really a farmer :confused:

OMG this is too much :rofl: :lol: x10

P.s This thread is a hot mess :rofl: again.

Jimena
08-04-2012, 04:07 PM
i once had a senior cry in class because in economics she was supposed to explain how some policy would affect a farmer and she didnt want people to think she was really a farmer :confused:

Hee! That's hilarious.

I think they might want to close this thread until the events actually happen...