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smarts1
07-26-2012, 03:05 AM
So we got some really interesting responses on the skating skills of the senior ladies, so I'm wondering where you guys would place the same group of skaters (with a few others) in terms of jumping technique. So here's the list and rank away!

1. Miki Ando
2. Mao Asada
3. Yuna Kim
4. Kimmie Meissner
5. Yukari Nakano
6. Carolina Kostner
7. Sarah Meier
8. Emily Hughes
9. Joannie Rochette
10. Ashley Wagner
11. Alissa Czisny
12. Mirai Nagasu
13. Akiko Suzuki
14. Kiira Korpi
15. Michelle Kwan
16. Irina Slutskaya

Triple Butz
07-26-2012, 04:09 AM
So we got some really interesting responses on the skating skills of the senior ladies, so I'm wondering where you guys would place the same group of skaters (with a few others) in terms of jumping technique. So here's the list and rank away!

1. Miki Ando
2. Mao Asada
3. Yuna Kim
4. Kimmie Meissner
5. Yukari Nakano
6. Carolina Kostner
7. Sarah Meier
8. Emily Hughes
9. Joannie Rochette
10. Ashley Wagner
11. Alissa Czisny
12. Mirai Nagasu
13. Akiko Suzuki
14. Kiira Korpi
15. Michelle Kwan
16. Irina Slutskaya

If we're talking pure technique, not consistency:
Excellent
1)Kostner (when she had the lutz, anyway...)
2)Rochette
3)Kim
4)Ando
5)Slutskaya
Good
6)Kwan (iffy lutz)
7)Suzuki (iffy lutz)
8)Asada (flutz, weak salchow)
9)Nagasu (iffy lutz, salchow MIA)
10)Wagner (flutz, sometimes toe-axels)
11)Meier (lip, no loop)
Could be better
12)Meissner (lip, toe-axel)
13)Hughes (Loop went MIA, heavy landings)
Sketchy
14)Nakano (iffy flip AND lutz, wrap, loop went MIA)
15)Korpi (her jump arch is very odd the toe and loop are her only jumps that don't look strange to me)
16)Czisny (no explanation necessary)

I feel good about my top five in that order, but within the other sub groups it's actually pretty interchangeable for me based on what aspects you prioritize.

museksk8r
07-26-2012, 04:11 AM
1. Irina Slutskaya
2. Joannie Rochette
3. Michelle Kwan
4. Yuna Kim
5. Carolina Kostner
6. Miki Ando
7. Yukari Nakano
8. Ashley Wagner
9. Akiko Suzuki
10. Mao Asada
11. Mirai Nagasu
12. Kimmie Meissner
13. Sarah Meier
14. Alissa Czisny
15. Kiira Korpi
16. Emily Hughes

barbk
07-26-2012, 04:21 AM
I'm not sure how to approach it with skaters like Kwan or Slutskaya who had tremendously long careers during which their jumping skills varied a lot. Even aside from that, some of the skaters were fabulous at everything but, say, one jump. Rochette had a lot of years where she was quite frankly not good, though she certainly went out on a high note.

I guess I'd start by throwing out the ladies who simply have no measurable success at one of the jumps.

Denise Beilmann isn't on the list -- shouldn't she be?

icellist
07-26-2012, 07:00 AM
I'm only going to do top 10 or 11

Top 5 (in alphabetical order) is no doubt
Miki Ando, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Joannie Rochette and Irina Slutskaya

Miki, Joannie, and Irina have all of the triples sans 3A. Lots of power and good technique in the jump. While Yuna and Carolina are missing the loop and lutz respectively, the quality of their other jumps make up for that missing jump type. Most of their jumps you can use as textbook examples. Height, speed, distance, takeoff, landing...

Almost at the top
Michelle Kwan, Mirai Nagasu, Akiko Suzuki

They mostly have the same technique on the lutz. They get a slight reputation for flutzing: when they don't flutz, the tech panel still calls it. All other jumps are there though. [Re Mirai's Salchow: it was a beauty in juniors, but Carroll left it out of her programs]. Mirai has the superior loop. Suzuki has that killer 2A-3T. Michelle has the consistency. They all have lovely edges and positions on their landings.

End of top 10
Yukari Nakano, Ashley Wagner

Yukari's wrap didn't bother me. I am still amazed at how she gets the rotation in her jumps considering the angular momentum and radial separation her leg gets. I can see why people think her flip/lutz takeoffs are iffy if you're distracted by the leg though. Can't forget 3A! Ashley has a lot of power in her full arsenal of jumps. The flutz is pretty obvious though. She fixed her toe axel though.

11. Mao Asada
She has the axel, flip and loop. She had a few good 3A. She flutzes. Loops are pretty nice. Pops her salchow. Her toe is okay. But she has nice light landings. Her jumps are more impressive than no-kneebend-Meier, thud-landing-Hughes, pre-rotated-salchow&toe=axel-Meissner, effortless-fall-Czisny and toe-loop-only-Korpii.

I actually feel pretty mean typing this because I can't jump but it is my opinion. Maybe I was too critical :/

sk8ingcoach
07-26-2012, 08:45 AM
1: Carolina Kostner (except lutz, but her other jumps are textbook)
2: Joannie Rochette
3: Yuna Kim (exception of loop and salchow)
4: Irina Slutskaya
5: Miki Ando
6: Michelle Kwan
7: Suzuki
8: Wagner (flutz)
9: Meier
10: Asada (good technique on axel, but nothing else)
11: Nagasu
12: Hughes (odd technique but managed to pull of some good jumps sometimes)
13: Meissner (toe-axel, DOWNGRADES !!!!!!! )
14: Nakano (huge wrap)
15: Korpi (hunch-back)
16: Czisny (TERRIBLE)

t.mann
07-26-2012, 09:12 AM
:eek: at overrating Rochette's jumps.
I don't see anything special from her jumps(including 2A) except 3S&3Lo.
Even her 3S&3Lo are not that excellent.
Rochette's all jumps except 3Lz are only sound.

Amy03
07-26-2012, 10:55 AM
Mao Asada ( tight air positioning, fast rotation, good flow, great height, smooth and steady landing, having showcased all the jumps including the 3A and several 3-3, the only thing left to say is a natural talented jumper)

Miki Ando ( fast rotation, tight air positioning, good height and the jump display she has showed also indicates what a natural talented jumper she is)

Yuna kim ( great jumps in terms of air positioning, height, flow but lack of loop, and inconsistent salcow)

Suzuki Akiko (tight air positioning, great flow, good height...)

Yukari Nakano ( wrap leg)

Carolina Kostner ( just a few years ago i really hated her jumps and had to cringe EVERYTIME she had to jump, but this past season she greatly improved but I am not fan of watered down jump content)

jatale
07-26-2012, 12:47 PM
To me, nobody really equals Yuna in the speed and height of her jumps. Both Michelle and Dick Button seemed to agree with that assessment in their remarks at the 2009 Worlds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccVEn8Jb_18

antmanb
07-26-2012, 01:05 PM
If we're talking pure technique, not consistency:
Excellent
1)Kostner (when she had the lutz, anyway...)
2)Rochette
3)Kim
4)Ando
5)Slutskaya


Trouble with putting Ando in this list is that she had a lip and then took it out completely so I think she belongs in teh group of "Good" with other skaters that have questionable edges.

And dare I say that Kim with no 3 Loop also needs to be in the good rather than excellent list. :shuffle:

fsfan22
07-26-2012, 01:33 PM
Trouble with putting Ando in this list is that she had a lip and then took it out completely so I think she belongs in teh group of "Good" with other skaters that have questionable edges.

And dare I say that Kim with no 3 Loop also needs to be in the good rather than excellent list. :shuffle:

I agree with all of this, especially w/ Miki. Her jumps are good in the air, but a lot of her landings are questionable. Her loop entry has always been ... different?

gkelly
07-26-2012, 02:42 PM
I guess I'd start by throwing out the ladies who simply have no measurable success at one of the jumps.

Denise Beilmann isn't on the list -- shouldn't she be?

Would you make different "throw them out" criteria for different eras?

Biellmann didn't do all the triple jumps that we've expected since the 1990s, but she did more than those she was competing against. Well, she did one harder one than anyone else was doing at the time, and I believe if

If you're going to include Biellmann, I think you need to include Zayak . . . and then Ito . . . as well. And other jumping trendsetters from other points in women's skating history. But that opens up whole other sets of questions that I don't think the poster of this thread was interested in.

I didn't love Biellmann's technique. She had a very weird arm position in the air.

Kasey
07-26-2012, 04:19 PM
Don't know how anyone can be ranked at or near the top when they don't have all 5 triple jumps a female elite skater is supposed to have. Doesn't matter if their jumping technique on 3 or 4 of the triples is "textbook"; to me, if they can't do them all properly, it's not sound technique.

JanetB
07-26-2012, 04:23 PM
Don't know how anyone can be ranked at or near the top when they don't have all 5 triple jumps a female elite skater is supposed to have. Doesn't matter if their jumping technique on 3 or 4 of the triples is "textbook"; to me, if they can't do them all properly, it's not sound technique.

However if you restrict the discussion to on those on the list who have all the jumps with correct technique, then you end up with Joannie Rochette.

Triple Butz
07-26-2012, 04:30 PM
Trouble with putting Ando in this list is that she had a lip and then took it out completely so I think she belongs in teh group of "Good" with other skaters that have questionable edges.

And dare I say that Kim with no 3 Loop also needs to be in the good rather than excellent list. :shuffle:

All I can say for my own list is that I didn't base it on consistency so much as how the jumps looked when they did them. Miki did do a real 3f for at least two seasons and many of them had excellent height. Yuna did do several beautiful triple loop jumps here and there. I saw her practicing them at Worlds in 09, and though she didn't do it in her program, I saw her land FIVE gorgeous ones in a row like they were nothing.