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skatesindreams
09-14-2012, 04:17 PM
I'm glad for Dmitry, also.

Tim's comments to Ven were distasteful. insulting and totally unworthy of him.
"menstrual blood -maxi pads".
That's not what I saw at all.
It's the first time that I haven't loved Tim.

I believe that Ven was really shaken by the comments.
After having something that was intended to reflect my cultural/religious heritage denigrated, I would have been.
I wish that he had continued with his original plan, in spite of them.
No wonder the "replacement" look didn't reflect his best work.

That the judges/Tim continued mocking him, laughing and joking at his expense, disgusted me.
I hope Ven never heard the worst of their comments.

my little pony
09-14-2012, 04:27 PM
yeah, it is valid if tim didnt like where the orig dress was going but i stil dont get the maxi pad reference (also it's 2012, i know they still sell them but still, no wonder ven was confused by it)

susan6
09-14-2012, 05:11 PM
Yay for Snape for finally winning a challenge; his outfit was awesome. How were the panels on the jacket held together? Some sort of invisible mesh? Leviosa spell?

I did feel bad for Ven after Tim's comments....harsh! And, uh, kind of gross! But...on the other hand...it's Ven. Dude needs to be taken down a few pegs. When his sister came in, my initial catty reaction was to wonder if he'd ever deigned to design anything for her, since she's the "wrong" body type.

Elena's print was fugly. What was its inspiration again?

TheGirlCanSkate
09-14-2012, 05:15 PM
Tim's comments to Ven were distasteful. insulting and totally unworthy of him.
"menstrual blood -maxi pads".
That's not what I saw at all.
It's the first time that I haven't loved Tim.

I saw it right away. And then on the new dress, as the model walked toward the camera, it looked like gunshot wounds. Ven looked very shaken, I don't think he ever had such strong comments from anyone about his designs, ever. But Tim HAS said not nice things before to everyone.

Fergus
09-14-2012, 05:22 PM
But Tim HAS said not nice things before to everyone.

I will never forget what he said to Nick about the blonde model reject from Zulema's "mutha-f*cking walk-off": She looks like an elongated marshmallow. :rofl:

Aceon6
09-14-2012, 05:25 PM
I saw it right away. And then on the new dress, as the model walked toward the camera, it looked like gunshot wounds. Ven looked very shaken, I don't think he ever had such strong comments from anyone about his designs, ever. But Tim HAS said not nice things before to everyone.

When I first looked at it, I thought the dress design was better suited to an unconventional materials challenge where they just tack sh!t on to muslin. Ven didn't even attempt to work with his print until he was challenged, then he just did what he always does. Everyone else had to align and match the print... not Ven.

my little pony
09-14-2012, 05:25 PM
Elena's print was fugly. What was its inspiration again?

it looked like the ukrainian flag w doo dads on it

PDilemma
09-14-2012, 05:27 PM
I saw it right away. And then on the new dress, as the model walked toward the camera, it looked like gunshot wounds. Ven looked very shaken, I don't think he ever had such strong comments from anyone about his designs, ever. But Tim HAS said not nice things before to everyone.

Yeah, something was not right with that.

And we must remember that Tim does not actually know exactly what a used maxi pad looks like. It was a simile meant to convey to Ven that it looked like fresh blood on something and probably came to Tim because it was red on white.

skatesindreams
09-14-2012, 05:50 PM
PR claims to want designers with a considerable skillset and a definite POV; along with the ability to produce/execute same.
Ven has that, in spades.
Whether you like his choices, or not; his abilities should be respected.

Most of the "judges" probably couldn't produce garments of the quality of his in one day.
(If you haven't read Laura Bennett's blogpost about the challenges of working on PR, you should.)

No one criticized Chanel, Dior, Valentino , etc for "trademark features"/details constantly used in their designs.

I note that Ven "dialed back" much of the detail in his final collection.
Was it a response to these "critiques"?
If so, it's a shame; because doing so removed much of what made/makes him unique.

It saddens me.

duane
09-14-2012, 06:09 PM
But...on the other hand...it's Ven. Dude needs to be taken down a few pegs.
My sentiments exactly.

Bostonfan
09-14-2012, 06:41 PM
The judging is known to go on for quite some time, so the few edited minutes that we get don't show a complete picture. I'm curious how often the judges call Tim out to ask him about something that occurred in the workroom, or if that was the 1st time.

aftershocks
09-14-2012, 07:10 PM
I think the fact the judges appreciate Ven's tailoring and construction skills is why he is still hanging around.

I feel sorry for Gunnar that he came close to winning last week and then was unable to come up with something better or at the least safe re a print for this week's challenge. Gunnar was trying to access a truth from his past, but he really needed to rethink his sketch of the hands and the bird trying to break free. Plus, he was also stymied by not coming up with a good jacket design. Neither the print nor the jacket design worked. His original sketch for an equestrian style outfit with a long skirt looked way better than his final garments. I was sorry to see Gunnar go, but he handled it very graciously and he seemed to feel that he'd learned something of value going forward. And, at least Gunnar got the chance to show at Fashion Week, and he came up with a cohesive thematic collection that I liked, even though it is not stellar and not a standout. Mondo seemed to feel that Ven should be auf'ed this week rather than Gunnar.

I thought it was great to see the designers with their families, and it did give them somewhat of a lift emotionally, and humanize them to a degree. Altho' ITA with susan6 re Ven's sister surely in his eyes not being "the right body type." Too bad Ven was so nasty to his client in the "real woman" challenge, and in general so arrogant at the start of the season. He does seem to have been whittled down to size a bit in that respect.

I too agree, skatesindreams, that often the judges' critiques end up stifling the points of view of many designers (not to mention the fact they are so burnt out at the end of the season) to the point where their collections tend not to live up to our high expectations.

So glad Dimitri finally won a challenge. Well deserved! Too bad he made mistakes in his final collection (especially with the styling of his models, which so detracts from his designs). This week, the judges warned Dimitri to watch out re over-designing (doing too much). However, the show and the judging is kind of contradictory, because in earlier challenges this season, Dimitri was criticized for being too conservative and not doing enough. Guess it resulted in a bit of confusion for him re his final collection. No wonder.

Chris' look for the print challenge was not good. He was off and uninspired this week. I liked Sonjia's work this week -- makes me even more disappointed re the results of her collection for Fashion Week. Well, Elena was safe again for a less than scintillating design. It will be interesting to see who actually made the final three. I hate the fact Elena might win it all on the basis of her well-styled and cohesive final collection where she seemed to learn to stop making bulky outfits that make her models look overweight. Ven might still be in the running for final three (despite Tim's criticisms).

I still love Tim. It is up to the designers to not take critiques personally, but to be creative and resourceful enough to "make it work!" Yes, it isn't easy to do that 100% of the time under the PR format.

skatesindreams
09-14-2012, 07:40 PM
It is up to the designers to not take critiques personally.

In this particular case - where the challenge itself was supposed to convey a personal statement, it would be difficult not to.

PDilemma
09-14-2012, 08:01 PM
No one criticized Chanel, Dior, Valentino , etc for "trademark features"/details constantly used in their designs.


But none of those designers ever used such a distinctive feature as Ven's "fabrigami" (thanks to whoever here coined that) roses over and over and over ad nauseum. You can have distinctive and signature features (I think of DVF wraps and prints) but to put one design feature on every single thing you make just gets old. It's why Coach doesn't put the "C" print on every single bag they make. They wouldn't sell high volume if they did. Diane Von Furstenberg designs dresses in solids and non-wrap designs, even though most people would consider that her distinction. She has to in order to have wide enough appeal.

hydro
09-14-2012, 08:42 PM
But none of those designers ever used such a distinctive feature as Ven's "fabrigami" (thanks to whoever here coined that) roses over and over and over ad nauseum. You can have distinctive and signature features (I think of DVF wraps and prints) but to put one design feature on every single thing you make just gets old. It's why Coach doesn't put the "C" print on every single bag they make. They wouldn't sell high volume if they did. Diane Von Furstenberg designs dresses in solids and non-wrap designs, even though most people would consider that her distinction. She has to in order to have wide enough appeal.

Plus, the "Ven signature" didn't really work with the textile. It looked completely out of place, so I can understand the criticism of including it.