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lauravvv
07-13-2012, 07:36 PM
I was shocked to see Lambiel is still here, should have been voted off on 4th round.Why, if it's no secret? What exactly makes him weaker than, say, Buttle or Joubert, or even Kulik?

lauravvv
07-13-2012, 07:44 PM
I consider myself as a Stéphane fan and have seen his every single program&fluff etc since 1997 when he did his first big stage appearance at Lausanne Worlds.
You explain very beautifully and it's interesting to learn your opinion and view to Stephane's programs. In many things I agree with you and I also said in my previous post that "sometimes" and "some".

Anyway I think that his competitive programs, such as "Truman show", "King Arthur", "Dralion", "4 seasons", of course "Poeta", "Otono porteno", "Tell", "Traviata" etc etc are no less interesting than his later creations "NMQP", "Don't Stop the Music", "Lets the good times roll", Rachmaninoff prelude, "My body is a cage" - if to mention the best.I agree completely that they are no less interesting as such. But, as I already wrote (just in another words), especially the earlier ones from the competition programs you mentioned were less Stephane's own vision and ideas than his newer programs are - which, to me, is a significant part of artistry, and tends to come with age. He has also grown as a performer, doing new styles, performing to new kinds of music, aquiring also some acting abilities. Lastly, he has just grown up, and is now able to put something into his programs (in the sense of ideas and attitude, and also emotionally) that he was not able to put there when he was younger. The same would apply also to other skaters, if they stayed in skating long enough, and cared about such things.

vodkashot
07-13-2012, 07:56 PM
Plushenko has a style of his own. He gave us stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEJXkfMYTX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aGZXEs4dIE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WszjpwnA1z4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GTyuR_AopM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k-yMlGvlW0

He also gave us stuff like this:

http://youtu.be/m28xZx7gp_8
http://youtu.be/0ieMEfklmuI
http://youtu.be/EWAget5XJDc
http://youtu.be/21woRiBqrks

:EVILLE:

lily
07-13-2012, 08:00 PM
I agree completely that they are no less interesting as such. But, as I already wrote (just in another words), especially the earlier ones from the competition programs you mentioned were less Stephane's own vision and ideas than his newer programs are - which, to me, is a significant part of artistry, and tends to come with age. He has also grown as a performer, doing new styles, performing to new kinds of music, aquiring also some acting abilities.

Let us continue our little private Lambiel topic. LOL
Actually that's a problem for me - I mean that he don't do so many new styles and new kinds of music. He has one of biggest talents in skating world in the sense of choreography, interpretation, musicality and he invented some new spins which are no less interesting than Biellmann spin (I hope they get his name in the future). (And that's probably the reason he's still here, when someone is shocked).
However, he uses always same directions: programs on classical music, jazz dance, latin theme, romantic-lyrical things. I don't say that he must do a new "Red cat" but I really would like to see something really different from him.

GoGreen
07-13-2012, 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by museksk8r
Plushenko is receiving so many votes because he lacks artistic style and flair and entertainment value. Consistently landing jumps means nothing if you can't captivate an audience, IMO. Evgeni lacks originality and genuine passion and feeling and tends to bore people

:rofl::rofl::rofl: I wonder why so many shows pay Plushenko big bucks to appear, if he cannot draw an audience. And even worse, why the organizers always let him close the first half or the second half of the show, bad bad business decision, they really don't know what the audience wants :lol: :lol:

And apparently, from the several shows I attended, all those people screaming their heads off during Plushenko's performance would demand a refund later :rofl:

Rob
07-13-2012, 08:39 PM
I would spend any amount of money and travel far (and I have) to watch Yagudin because he speaks to me through his skating, and he always touches my heart.

However, I am not going to be ugly here about Plushy. He is a great skater no doubt. He just doesn't speak to me at all. But hey-I don't care if he speaks to some of you out there! Why get your knickers in such a twist?

:cheer::cheer2::40beers: My sentiments exactly!

lauravvv
07-13-2012, 08:39 PM
Let us continue our little private Lambiel topic. LOL
Actually that's a problem for me - I mean that he don't do so many new styles and new kinds of music. He has one of biggest talents in skating world in the sense of choreography, interpretation, musicality and he invented some new spins which are no less interesting than Biellmann spin (I hope they get his name in the future). (And that's probably the reason he's still here, when someone is shocked).
However, he uses always same directions: programs on classical music, jazz dance, latin theme, romantic-lyrical things. I don't say that he must do a new "Red cat" but I really would like to see something really different from him.I think that except a few quick 'Art on Ice' programs he has not done completely "romantic-lyrical" for some years already ;). It has been either together with dramatic (like 'Bring me to life') or comic ('Rigoletto'). But if you want to see something avantgarde from him, or really, really comic, I think you won't see that. It's just not him - he is more this classical, aristocratic guy, a prince, a dandy. But I guess I see his musical choices differently. Classical music is not all the same to me - 'Four Seasons' is very different from 'Rigoletto' and 'William Tell'. Which, in turn, is very different from Rachmaninov's 'Prelude in G minor'. Again - 'Rigoletto' is mostly playful and quite embellished, while 'Prelude in G minor' is serious and quite sparse. I don't perceive it as the same style, since it requires different choreo, musicality and performance style. Recently Stephane did a program to a very dramatic version of 'My Body is A Cage' - and he's never performed to such intensely dramatic, strong and almost overpowering music before.

You also have to keep in mind that Stephane peforms in shows like 'Art on Ice' (both in Switzerland and China) and 'Opera on Ice', and he has to do programs to the music from the repertoire of singers and musicians who perform there. He can't even choose completely freely from that, because the artistic directors of those shows have their own vision. Naturally, the music performed at 'Opera on Ice' is opera music, so skaters who take part have to do programs with opera music offered by the organizers. Also, Stephane did 'Prelude in G minor' because he had to choose from three classical pieces from Lang Lang's repertoire. In the end, there's quite little time left for preparing programs to the music of his own choice. And, yes, in the last two years even that has been jazz and classical (but I already wrote what I think of that). Except 'My Body is A Cage' which Stephane chose for himself, and the director of 'Art on Ice' then found a singer who could sing it live - but that's rare for 'Art on Ice'.

In any case, Stephane still has had programs in more styles than many skaters dream of (hint, hint - Plushenko - hint, hint).

senorita
07-13-2012, 08:43 PM
^ Plush goes to opera on ice and art on ice too :)


:rofl::rofl::rofl: I wonder why so many shows pay Plushenko big bucks to appear, if he cannot draw an audience. And even worse, why the organizers always let him close the first half or the second half of the show, bad bad business decision, they really don't know what the audience wants :lol: :lol:

And apparently, from the several shows I attended, all those people screaming their heads off during Plushenko's performance would demand a refund later :rofl:

^lol, yeap that was as real a statement as kvdp having better ss than chan.

didn't you know plush is the perfect bathroom break in competition? :) Until he does his quad and finishes shaking the mullet you have time to buy a donut as well :)

vodkashot
07-13-2012, 08:45 PM
But if you want to see something avantgarde from him, or really, really comic, I think you won't see that.

Hmmm....I think Carne Cruda was kind of avant-garde, and so was Red Cat in a way ;)

DaiKozOda
07-13-2012, 08:54 PM
He also gave us stuff like this:

http://youtu.be/m28xZx7gp_8
http://youtu.be/0ieMEfklmuI
http://youtu.be/EWAget5XJDc
http://youtu.be/21woRiBqrks

:EVILLE:

Adds to "He has a style of his own" statement. :D

Anyway, I like those programs as well, especcially the baby-Plushenko. :slinkaway

lily
07-13-2012, 09:07 PM
Hmmm....I think Carne Cruda was kind of avant-garde, and so was Red Cat in a way ;)

Yess! And so was Geissel Drama. Maybe he should use contemporary classical music to create something more sharp, even a little ugly, dramatic and painful. "My Body is a Cage" has some germs of it.

kwanfan1818
07-13-2012, 09:19 PM
and why is Lambiel still in the list ? :shuffle:
he is the weakest link and was not throughout a dominant skater in his career
Because everyone gets to make up their own criteria and voting strategy, as noted at the beginning of the thread?

For me, Yagudin will always lose to Plushenko, because Plushenko made fun of himself, and Yagudin wouldn't. Like a voter in any free election, I get to decide based on anything I want, even if you find my reasons stoopid.

vodkashot
07-13-2012, 09:37 PM
Because everyone gets to make up their own criteria and voting strategy, as noted at the beginning of the thread?

For me, Yagudin will always lose to Plushenko, because Plushenko made fun of himself, and Yagudin wouldn't. Like a voter in any free election, I get to decide based on anything I want, even if you find my reasons stoopid.

Though I admittedly voted for Plush this round, Plush's sense of humor is something I've always liked about him.

crankyintheAM
07-13-2012, 09:40 PM
Most exciting round, not only for this poll, but for all the ones going on in the Trash Can now! :)

Plushenko's skating might be ugly for some, including me, but he's definitely not lacking in passion and charisma and


Plushenko made fun of himself

Plushenko has a sense of humor, I really appreciate that about him, aside from his impressive record and his technical prowess.

If this round ends as it stands now, who will get Plushenko's votes next round? Lambiel and Takahashi have so much in common, including fans.

GoGreen
07-13-2012, 11:16 PM
^ Plush goes to opera on ice and art on ice too :)


^lol, yeap that was as real a statement as kvdp having better ss than chan.

didn't you know plush is the perfect bathroom break in competition? :) Until he does his quad and finishes shaking the mullet you have time to buy a donut as well :)

:rofl: :rofl: That is a really good one! I felt the studium's floor acutally shaking during his Tango Amore performance in 2010 Artistry on Ice, that must be a lot of people rushing to bathrooms. :lol:

So here is one of the biggest mysteries in figure skating, why so many show organizers are so blind and waste their money on an artless (and quadless during shows) skater? Maybe we should educate them here on FSU?

Some people must be living in a bubble.