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judgejudy27
07-09-2012, 07:34 AM
That's the problem with Dai and to a lesser extent Stephane - considering their talent and abilities, their record could have been better. Looking at medals and wins, some of the eliminated skaters certainly surpass them.

Like who? Stojko of course but who else. I dont consider any of Eldredge, Urmanov, Joubert, or Buttle to have had better careers than Lambiel or Takahashi. Lysacek and Chan might be considered by some to have better careers than Takahashi but I dont think either had a better career than Lambiel. Lambiel's extra World title + Olympic silver atleast equal Lysacek's Olympic Gold, and Lambiel has an extra grand prix final title. Chan doesnt even have an Olympic medal yet.

Zemgirl
07-09-2012, 08:08 AM
Like who? Stojko of course but who else. I dont consider any of Eldredge, Urmanov, Joubert, or Buttle to have had better careers than Lambiel or Takahashi. Lysacek and Chan might be considered by some to have better careers than Takahashi but I dont think either had a better career than Lambiel. Lambiel's extra World title + Olympic silver atleast equal Lysacek's Olympic Gold, and Lambiel has an extra grand prix final title. Chan doesnt even have an Olympic medal yet.
I said medals and wins. Stephane Lambiel especially does not have that good of a competitive record, because he didn't do all that well in the first few years of his career and skipped a lot of events in the latter part of it. And two of his biggest achievements - the first World title and the Olympic silver- came in poorly skated events in which even he wasn't that good. Dai's record is better, but still does not match his talent, IMO. One problem is that neither is/was a very consistent jumper (and Dai is prone to URs), and their injury issues probably haven't helped.

Anyway - Stojko, of course. Joubert has a boatload of medals, including three European golds to Stephane's zero - think about it, Sarah Meier has more Euro titles than Stephane, and as many medals. In fact, Joubert has more (senior) ISU Championship medals than Stephane and Dai combined; you can even throw in their Olys medals and he will still have more medals than both of them together. Eldredge also won a lot of medals in his career, though fewer as he did not have a continental championship to compete in until late in his career. Chan's record is similar to that of Lambiel and Takahashi - maybe even a bit better - despite having been around for a shorter time.

You know, between this and my earlier defense of Takahashi, I believe I have talked myself into voting for Lambiel in the next round.

lauravvv
07-09-2012, 11:30 AM
Stéphane Lambiel Worlds 2004 SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AlGuwx61D8)
Stéphane Lambiel Worlds 2004 FS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nyc3B1hQIQ&feature=related)Thank you. Bu the first one is Plushenko's 2001 SP again, and the second is 2005 FS ;).



:barrel :violin: :summer:

I can make the next round tougher, if you want.

:EVILLE:A double elimination? Nothing tough there, though. It will leave us with Yagudin an Plushenko anyway - just a bit sooner than without the double elimination. Besides, Takahashi and Lambiel are so equal overall, that they deserve to go together.

Now I probably have convinced you not to make it a double elimination :shuffle:.

Voted for Kulik again. The least impressive medal record, a shorter competitive career + I don't see anything special in his style, although it was nice (at least when it comes to competitive programs - I haven't seen that much of his professional performances).

ChelleC
07-09-2012, 12:59 PM
:barrel :violin: :summer:

I can make the next round tougher, if you want.

:EVILLE:

Next one will be tough enough on its own. :lol:

lauravvv
07-09-2012, 01:05 PM
Next one will be tough enough on its own. :lol:I agree. It will be tougher the normal way than it would be with a double elimination.

Proustable
07-09-2012, 02:24 PM
A double elimination? Nothing tough there, though. It will leave us with Yagudin an Plushenko anyway - just a bit sooner than without the double elimination. Besides, Takahashi and Lambiel are so equal overall, that they deserve to go together.


I predict right now that if next week is a double elimination, Plushenko would go as one of the two choices.

Vagabond
07-09-2012, 03:44 PM
I fixed the Lambiel bonus videos. Thank you, lauravvv.

As for the possibility of a double elimination.... If I do it, everyone will get only one vote, so using it to "save" somebody will be a lot harder to do.

By the way, I think Plushenko may be vulnerable next week even if it's a single elimination. :watch:

As for this week, IMHO it's clearly Kulik's time to go. Whatever his comparative strengths, he didn't compete at the top level long enough or rack up enough major victories to warrant his staying in another round against the likes of these.

Cherub721
07-09-2012, 04:20 PM
No double eliminations! It's just starting to get really interesting! And the off season has a ways to go...

I wonder where the Kulik votes will go.... if they're anti-Russian votes, I would assume Plushy, but I don't think that the Kulik voters are anti-Russian, I think they're based on his relatively weaker record. Kulik is also considered "artistic" moreso than Plush, so if these voters are willing to vote out more artistic skaters based on a weaker record, then that would imply they will switch to Takahashi, who will have the weakest record left.

antmanb
07-09-2012, 05:23 PM
No double eliminations! It's just starting to get really interesting! And the off season has a ways to go...

I wonder where the Kulik votes will go.... if they're anti-Russian votes, I would assume Plushy, but I don't think that the Kulik voters are anti-Russian, I think they're based on his relatively weaker record. Kulik is also considered "artistic" moreso than Plush, so if these voters are willing to vote out more artistic skaters based on a weaker record, then that would imply they will switch to Takahashi, who will have the weakest record left.

This Kulik vote will go to Labiel, I think. I have never beena fan of Plush, but his record really speaks for itself and I feel that in all good conscience I couldn't vote for him until it's him and Yags :P

I'd vote Lambiel over Takahashi just because Stephane's career is over and Daisuke's isn't, and I'm hoping Daisuke might snap up a few more (preferably gold) medals in what is left of his career. For me Kulik would have been out much sooner, and Chan would still be in.

lauravvv
07-09-2012, 05:43 PM
I predict right now that if next week is a double elimination, Plushenko would go as one of the two choices.


By the way, I think Plushenko may be vulnerable next week even if it's a single elimination. :watch:I am not so sure. All the Kulik voters will go somewhere. I think that Cherub721 (as quoted below) is right, and most of them are voting for Kulik based on his weaker record and overall achievements, as did I. Which also means that they are more likely to vote reasonably - that is - for Takahashi or Lambiel, not for Plushenko.


I wonder where the Kulik votes will go.... if they're anti-Russian votes, I would assume Plushy, but I don't think that the Kulik voters are anti-Russian, I think they're based on his relatively weaker record. Kulik is also considered "artistic" moreso than Plush, so if these voters are willing to vote out more artistic skaters based on a weaker record, then that would imply they will switch to Takahashi, who will have the weakest record left.Or Lambiel, as I think the voting is not just about medals, but also about overall achievements - including longevity, other excellent skates that also could have medaled, or medaled higher than they did, and so on. That is very much about Takahashi.

Vagabond
07-09-2012, 06:01 PM
At the moment, there is a two-way tie for second (i.e., second from the bottom or fourth overall) between Takahashi and Lambiel, with 44 votes apiece, with Plushenko right behind with 42 votes. Even if Kulik is eliminated this round, it could be any one of these three to go next. :COP:

Yagudin is currently sitting pretty with just 6 votes. :summer:

Cherub721
07-09-2012, 08:28 PM
Yagudin is currently sitting pretty with just 6 votes. :summer:

He is clearly going to win and I think he deserves it, but I hope it's Plushy at the end with him and there's a good discussion, cause I think there are some arguments for Plushy (a better Olympic record than Yags and more innovation in jump combos). Why can't a bunch of Plushy ubers register already? :P

Cheylana
07-10-2012, 12:05 AM
Why can't a bunch of Plushy ubers register already? :P
Why can't FSU voters just be a little more objective and stop voting against their favorites' rivals out of spite? :P I haven't really enjoyed Plush's skating that much these past few years, but his record speaks for itself and he deserves to be here a few more rounds at the very least. I'd argue that maybe he even deserves to win over Yags, though I definitely don't see that happening.

bbkenn
07-10-2012, 01:59 AM
:wall: Chan? Why?

He's Canadian, and many people on this board don't like Canadians:lol:

misskarne
07-10-2012, 03:31 AM
Why can't a bunch of Plushy ubers register already? :P

They'd probably rather register at the forums on Plushy's website and be among other ubers than register at a place where he's considered the most evil thing in skating and it's considered a sin to like him.


Why can't FSU voters just be a little more objective and stop voting against their favorites' rivals out of spite? :P I haven't really enjoyed Plush's skating that much these past few years, but his record speaks for itself and he deserves to be here a few more rounds at the very least. I'd argue that maybe he even deserves to win over Yags, though I definitely don't see that happening.

I agree. It should be Plushenko and Yagudin as the final two. Plushy won't win, but he should definitely be final two. His record is simply incredible, you have to admire his determination to continue, his longevity, and his incredible consistency. He's probably had fewer falls across his entire Senior career than Chan has had in two seasons.