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michiruwater
07-13-2012, 03:14 PM
Meanwhile, you could have an axe murderer or pedophile next door or in the next cubicle. But all is good, just so long as they are a non-smoking axe murderer or pedophile, all is good. . .unless of course you find yourself at the wrong side of the axe . . .:)

I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make here. We should be fine with having a smoker next to us in an apartment, because if we didn't have the smoker, there's a minute chance we might instead have either an axe murderer or pedophile, and that's much worse than a smoker, so we should just be happy with the smoker? Or that if we happened to have an axe murderer or pedophile, we wouldn't complain about the axe murderer or pedophile because they don't smoke, like it's easy to just spot an axe murderer or pedophile and say, "oh, hey, that person is clearly and axe murderer!"

I'm just not sure how the presence or lack of presence of an axe murderer and/or pedophile next door justifies allowing people who smoke to live in your apartment complex or not.

michiruwater
07-13-2012, 03:17 PM
Oh please, enough is enough is enough.

There is nothing else in the air you breathe to get upset about?

Of course there is. Does this mean that we should not also be allowed to be upset about cigarette smoke, or does the presence of other harmful items in the air mean that we should just let cigarette smoke run free?


Why don't you just go dance in the middle of a smoke-free street full of traffic and exhaust fumes, and sing Hallaluja?

As this is a common thing that people do, I see why you bring it up. And, of course, no one in this thread who complained about cigarette smoke is also hoping that they'll find cleaner energy. All the non-smokers firmly believe that we need to keep burning fossil fuels and not bother with that green energy crap.

purple skates
07-13-2012, 03:25 PM
If you were to say to me, "hey, that cigarette smoke really bothers me--would you mind putting it out or taking it somewhere else?"--I would accommodate you in a second.

I think the point some people are trying to make is that they shouldn't have to be put in the position of asking someone to move or put it out.

Also, you might be nice to someone making a request like that, but in many cases the asker is more likely to get a glare or a puff of smoke in their face than anything else. :shuffle:

In my own experience (as an ex-smoker living with a smoker), the constant smoke can be very very annoying. It's just always there - the ash trays, the second-hand smoke, the litter. I imagine a non-smoker living in an apartment next to a smoker would have similar feelings. I choose to stay in the same environment as the smoker in my life - the apartment/condo dwellers may not have the luxury of that choice. I don't blame Louis et al for wanting to ban smoking in their building.

Louis
07-13-2012, 03:31 PM
Meanwhile, you could have an axe murderer or pedophile next door or in the next cubicle.

No, because both my employer and my housing co-op do full background checks.

berthesghost
07-13-2012, 03:57 PM
And yes, it is hellish to quit especially if there are psychological factors to smoking, which for many people there are. It's the same with obesity, I imagine, with alcoholism and illegal drug use, prescription drug addiction and so on. The underlying causes are not identical with the actual substance being abused, but after time they fuse into a very difficult problem.Yes, which is why I made the joke about not throwing my candy wrappers or empty beer bottles on your front lawn, so stop throwing your cigarette butts in my yard and thinking it's ok. :lol:

I dont think Im judgemental about smokers. Im more like "there but for the grace of god go i" but I don't get all of the indignation. Im the first to admit im fat, that i did it to myself, and that I should lose the weight but am finding it hard. I make jokes about being fat all the time, and I cant believe how many people look at my clearly overweight body and go "Oh stop, you're not fat!". I mean come on, surely smokers must know that they willingly put a gun to their own heads every day. I just don't get all of the defensiveness.

Andora
07-13-2012, 04:05 PM
I have to laugh at victim/persecution complex smokers seem to have. The best was a friend's sister-in-law, who thought it was unfair restaurants no longer had smoking sections. "What about smokers rights???" she very indignantly asked. Dear Lord.

I get that quitting is tough, and that there is a lot of guilt and defensiveness related to it. Judging smokers so resolutely doesn't help, I really do understand that. I spent years saying I was trying to quit, just like someone overweight often claims they're dieting. Most of the time it's true, but why the pressure to say it?

Still, to talk like smokers are a persecuted class... I mean... :shuffle:

ks1227
07-13-2012, 04:37 PM
For the record, I don't smoke (though I've occasionally had a cig here or there) and I don't allow smoking in my apartment or car (though I've let friends do it on my balcony). And I live in Chicago, where smoking isn't permitted in public places; so it's not an issue at work.

That said, I do think our collective negative reaction to smokers these days as non-smokers, at least in the U.S., is a bit over the top. I mean that at a societal level, not (just) at an individual level.

I have a number of friends who smoke. Some of them have tried very hard to quit, in a few cases for years. At least a couple of them feel bad about the difficulties they've had doing so, which appear to be pretty strong. Why do they need the added pressure of my shaming them? And if I feel that way about my friends, why should I treat people I don't know any differently when I encounter them smoking out in the world? They don't need sneers from someone they don't even know to understand that smoking is pretty unpopular these days.

A number of people who have reviewed the studies are quietly starting to point out that the dangers of second hand smoke are much more ambiguous and contradictory than our current social consensus admits. Case in point:

Psychology Today column 2009 (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous)

As far as the health risks that smoking poses to smokers themselves, the evidence is pretty clear (though I know smokers who are in their 70s and haven't experienced significant health problems yet); but I'd prefer to let adults make their own decisions about health. I know that I have some routine practices that carry some risk ... we all do. I need to take responsibility for finding out what those risks are and making a decision about how much risk I can live with.

As far as the smell, sure, I don't like it either. But people enjoyed the smell when smoking was popular. So the strong negative reaction to the smell is likely to be a social phenomenon, much like the negative reaction people sometimes have to the smells of foods that are enjoyed by other cultures but not their own. There's nothing inherently bad about the smell. Personally, I have a much stronger negative reaction to guys who wear too much cologne.

michiruwater
07-13-2012, 04:56 PM
I think the small is terrible. I believe the smell is inherently bad and I'd love to see some sort of reference for stating that people enjoyed the smell when smoking was popular, because I find that hard to believe as it's such a disgusting smell.

Lizziebeth
07-13-2012, 05:56 PM
I never was a smoker but grew up with parents that smoked. I started my working career in an office where people smoked all day long at their desks about 6 ft away from me. I went to meetings in conference rooms where I was one of two non smokers in the group and people smoked in the room all day. It was awful, and I had to go back to glasses instead of contacts. I am a poster child for exposure to second hand smoke - so far so good.

The company I worked for at that time was an early adopter of designated smoking areas. Huge improvement! At meetings, everyone took a smoke break and I got one too, even though I did not smoke.

The first week the fire alarms went off because of the concentration of smoke in the designated area LOL.

A few years later, our company president and board declared the grounds off limits for smoking, which seemed harsh to me. They gave lots of warning. People ended up in the parking lot, laying down in their cars to smoke, or came up with an errand so they could drive around. I will say the company gave employees wanting to quit a lot of support.

After a few years, lots of my coworkers quit because it was just too much trouble to smoke during the day. New hires were warned about the strict company policy before they signed on.

I totally get how hard it is to quit and have great admiration for anyone who successfully quits when they want to. But I do like being able to go to a restaurant or meeting that is smoke free.

manhn
07-13-2012, 06:16 PM
Depsite myself never having smoked, I have always viewed myself as quite relaxed to smoking. I even let friends smoke in my car. But a lot of that has changed since buying my condo. All those cigarette butts flickered into my balcony drives me crazy! And there was a butt laying on the ground when I was using the elevator down the parkade. I mean, come on!

As for crying babies in airplanes, I agree. You never hear anyone complain about loud children in public spaces.

michiruwater
07-13-2012, 06:28 PM
I hear people complain about loud children in public spaces all the time. Do you specifically mean to the face of the parents of said children?

berthesghost
07-13-2012, 06:47 PM
I hear people complain about loud children in public spaces all the time. Me too.

galaxygirl
07-13-2012, 07:10 PM
I hear people complain about loud children in public spaces all the time. Do you specifically mean to the face of the parents of said children?

IIRC, there have been threads discussing it on this very board.

falling_dance
07-13-2012, 07:11 PM
I suspect that manhn was being sarcastic.

PrincessLeppard
07-14-2012, 12:33 AM
I think the small is terrible. I believe the smell is inherently bad and I'd love to see some sort of reference for stating that people enjoyed the smell when smoking was popular, because I find that hard to believe as it's such a disgusting smell.

My first serious, head over heels real life crush, the one that makes you all gooey and schmoopy and stoopid, smoked Marlboro Reds. Whenever I smell someone smoking that brand, all those silly, fabulous sensations are triggered. :)