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iggie
07-27-2012, 02:34 PM
when did tessa and scott say they wanted to be innovators?

Subway
07-27-2012, 03:00 PM
the new era has hurt creativity? can you post some creative routines from years past for me to see? in part, i want to see if "creativity" is not just a neutral way of saying "voidy", "theatrical", or "over the top".

anyway, i tend to take the idea from nigel on sytycd, which is that there is a way to blend prescribed steps, architecture, what must happen with artistry and poetry. just because there are more expectations for what needs to be done in a routine doesn't mean that the beauty necessarily is lost.

regarding the ex, i will think about that date.

I think beauty has been enhanced with the re-focus on dance and the move away from voidy and theatrical, which, IMO, was the opposite of beauty and creativity. It was hackneyed and ridiculous as often as not. In any event, even if one prefers voidy and what some call OTT, there is no basis at all to claim that it shows more creativity to do that stuff than the current trend towards dance-centric ice dance programs (imagine such a thing).

Subway
07-27-2012, 03:01 PM
when did tessa and scott say they wanted to be innovators? I don't recall either but I have that in my head that they said it. They represent and are proud of representing, the opposite of what so many fans here want them to be. They're intentionally not being that, that's what they stand for. I find the desire to make them something they're not a little weird.

Emdee
07-27-2012, 03:41 PM
But PF was very innovative in style and substance

iggie
07-27-2012, 03:51 PM
I don't recall either but I have that in my head that they said it. They represent and are proud of representing, the opposite of what so many fans here want them to be. They're intentionally not being that, that's what they stand for. I find the desire to make them something they're not a little weird.

they've certainly said that...

something tess and i are passionate about is true dancing on the ice. moving well on the ice and not being over-theatrical, or having those programs we've been used to seeing in ice dancing over the last ten years, those kind of in-your-face programs. we want to go back to movement, which is more dance-y, and makes people feel good and have fun."

scott speaking to steve milton for the book, tessa and scott: our journey from childhood dream to gold

sap5
07-27-2012, 03:54 PM
when did tessa and scott say they wanted to be innovators?

They've often said that they wanted to push the boundaries, but the clearest mention was probably in Dance International (http://issuu.com/di_2010/docs/di_may_2010) magazine, which said that they "were eager to move ice dance forward."

sap5
07-27-2012, 04:22 PM
If V/M are doing Carmen for their FD, I'm wondering if they might be doing the Carmen Suite (ballet) instead of Carmen, the opera? There were several people on here that wished to see them do a ballet, so maybe that wouldn't be so bad?

iggie
07-27-2012, 04:43 PM
They've often said that they wanted to push the boundaries, but the clearest mention was probably in Dance International (http://issuu.com/di_2010/docs/di_may_2010) magazine, which said that they "were eager to move ice dance forward."

thanks.

DORISPULASKI
07-27-2012, 05:37 PM
They've often said that they wanted to push the boundaries, but the clearest mention was probably in Dance International (http://issuu.com/di_2010/docs/di_may_2010) magazine, which said that they "were eager to move ice dance forward."


they've certainly said that...

something tess and i are passionate about is true dancing on the ice. moving well on the ice and not being over-theatrical, or having those programs we've been used to seeing in ice dancing over the last ten years, those kind of in-your-face programs. we want to go back to movement, which is more dance-y, and makes people feel good and have fun."

scott speaking to steve milton for the book, tessa and scott: our journey from childhood dream to gold

The first statement is probably a wishful interpretation of the second quote (or another quote similar to it).

I think Tessa and Scott have said they wanted to change the direction of ice dance. People have interpreted that to mean "push the boundaries", but what they meant was what Scott said; they want to move ice dance back to what their vision of dancing is.

YMMV as to whether that is either "innovative" or "creative". Personally, I don't think you have to "push the boundaries" to be "innovative" and "creative".

I think Tessa & Scott can be & have been both without being voidy or OTT. I don't think people should push them to take on an artistic vision that's not to their taste.

iggie
07-27-2012, 06:26 PM
i asked about a particular quote regarding innovation because of how people are reacting to carmen. some people laughed at carmen because they think that scott said that he and tessa wanted to be innovative, if that makes sense. they laugh because the music choice of carmen is not innovative. but as i read those quotes, i just kept wondering where tessa and scott ever said that they wanted innovation.

lavenderblue
07-27-2012, 06:45 PM
I think this 2010 interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARf28rp6GJ8#t=5m16s) with Tracy Wilson was another of the sources.


Tessa: I think there are so many different places we want to go with programs. We want to challenge ourselves and push the envelope and try new programs, different music, different forms of art and dance and transferring that onto the ice, which is always a challenge. And that's something we love about the sport -- we love to see what we can push, and what it brings out of us.

sap5
07-27-2012, 06:54 PM
I think Tessa and Scott have said they wanted to change the direction of ice dance. People have interpreted that to mean "push the boundaries", but what they meant was what Scott said; they want to move ice dance back to what their vision of dancing is.

YMMV as to whether that is either "innovative" or "creative". Personally, I don't think you have to "push the boundaries" to be "innovative" and "creative".

I think Tessa & Scott can be & have been both without being voidy or OTT. I don't think people should push them to take on an artistic vision that's not to their taste.

V/M have used the phrase "push the boundaries" themselves many times, so that isn't just an intepretation of other quotes.

I don't interpret "boundaries" to be voidy or OTT either. I just see it as doing something different than what we've seen before in ice dance. So far, I think V/M have done a good job with that. At the time they put out Valse Triste, that program looked very different from what everyone else was doing and had been doing, right down to the costumes. Same with PF and, to a lesser extent, the Latin FD (circular twizzles, etc.).


I think this 2010 interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARf28rp6GJ8#t=5m16s) with Tracy Wilson was another of the sources.

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that interview. Thanks lavenderblue.

Shayii
07-27-2012, 06:56 PM
I think this 2010 interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARf28rp6GJ8#t=5m16s) with Tracy Wilson was another of the sources.
Also in that short magazine link I posted Scott says they always talk about pushing the boundaries. I don't know if they ever used the word innovator specifically, but it has always been implied.

iggie
07-27-2012, 07:10 PM
I think this 2010 interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARf28rp6GJ8#t=5m16s) with Tracy Wilson was another of the sources.

thanks. but when you think about, tessa and scott's version of what that means is really than everyone else's.

funny face
- different music? check. forget their own resume, in which funny face would be different. no one has skated to funny face before in ice dance.
- different forms of art and dance? check. see the jazz section, especially the original
- did it try to push the sport? yes. many people had to work to appreciate it. many couldn't. it was definitely out there and to get their vibe, you needed a push.

so if funny face can meet that criteria, so can carmen.

iggie
07-27-2012, 07:16 PM
V/M have used the phrase "push the boundaries" themselves many times, so that isn't just an intepretation of other quotes.

I don't interpret "boundaries" to be voidy or OTT either. I just see it as doing something different than what we've seen before in ice dance. So far, I think V/M have done a good job with that. At the time they put out Valse Triste, that program looked very different from what everyone else was doing and had been doing, right down to the costumes. Same with PF and, to a lesser extent, the Latin FD (circular twizzles, etc.)

such a good point. if everyone is being dramatik, voidy, ott... then doing with tessa and scott do is creative and innovative.