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judgejudy27
07-06-2012, 02:57 PM
Michelle Kwan won 2001 WOrlds, with Irina skating a better LP than her Russian Nats.

LOL what planet are you on. Her performance at Russian Nationals was much better.

Amy03
07-06-2012, 03:23 PM
Not at all, where in my post did I even mention the Olympics? I doubt you'll bother replying, since you didn't bother replying to the last message in a previous thread where I proved you wrong too :P



(something is wrong, i can't quote right so i will just writte my name beside my answers)


amy: you know i only bother replying when it isn't stupid, ridicouloes and ignorant quesion that are asked or stated, but i will make an exception this time!



Overall all in their senior careers Yuna was more consistent and had more success. That's pretty much factual when you look at the results and protocols





amy: Mao has won every title (worlds,4cc,gpf) several times yuna hasn't (with the exception of the olympics) beside that they both have a dosin of medals so i really don't see where you get the idea that there is a big difference in terms of succes!




Ok, so one competition where Yuna wins isn't allowed to count for Yuna, but the only time Mao lands three triple axels in one competition (the same competition no less) is allowed to count :confused:



amy: you should reread my post cause you seriously seem to have missed the point, let me repeat myself yuna ONLY has one title more then Mao, that in itself doesn't make her a better skater!



Can you post a link to the protocols that show Mao landing two 3/3s and 3A because I cannot recall a single programme where this happened, unless you are counting that programme she did at nationals when she was 11 (maybe 12) and seriously under-rotated the 3/3s and 3A.



amy: I am pretty sure you know how to find the protocols yourself, so maybe you should trouble yourself a bit and get it! but if you were a bit clever you wouldn't need it, looking at the score should confirm it, but if that doesn't make you content then go get the protocols!


Well i've never seen Asada include multiple triple axels as well as several 3/3s in the same performance either you keep pretneding that she does, but that's simply not true. If it is, please post the link to the protocls that show this.



amy: :rofl: you know one thing i realised after this whole discussion is that when people don't want to look at reality nothing will make them accept it!:kickass:

so if it makes your ego feel better, just continue to pretend that Mao never did several 3A in the same program, she hasn't landed several 3-3 and a 3A in the same program... it just never happened, right :scream:

(by the way does anyone know to quote right, something is wrong )

Triple Butz
07-06-2012, 04:08 PM
AFAIK Irina had three seven triples programs in her career and all of them are totally unreachable by Kim, Kwan and even Asada technically.


Worlds 2005 with 3Lz+3Lo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8


Ever heard of Elaine Zayak?

I would add this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKvX8U9WH9g Slutskaya, Kim, and Asada have never landed 7 triples in a world or olympic competition which is worth noting IMO.

Triple Butz
07-06-2012, 04:19 PM
:rofl::rofl: I am sorry to dissappoint you but Mao Asada has pulled many 7-tripples program that includes a 3A and 3-3 and most other jumps in combination too, let me show you a few of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8LXKlFjUI
The first two jumps were both double-footed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpZGFBDYc2w
The sal was double footed


Good for her in 2007/2008, though! :cheer: That makes two seven triple programs.

antmanb
07-06-2012, 04:25 PM
Ok, so one competition where Yuna wins isn't allowed to count for Yuna, but the only time Mao lands three triple axels in one competition (the same competition no less) is allowed to count :confused:


amy: you should reread my post cause you seriously seem to have missed the point, let me repeat myself yuna ONLY has one title more then Mao, that in itself doesn't make her a better skater!

I do read your posts but you are either too stupid to make your poitns clearly or purposefully miss the points that are raised. Mao landed three triple axels in one competition just once, not multiple times, but you seem to think the fact she achieved it once means that she's to be worshipped in some way. This i do not understand whatsoever.




Can you post a link to the protocols that show Mao landing two 3/3s and 3A because I cannot recall a single programme where this happened, unless you are counting that programme she did at nationals when she was 11 (maybe 12) and seriously under-rotated the 3/3s and 3A.


amy: I am pretty sure you know how to find the protocols yourself, so maybe you should trouble yourself a bit and get it! but if you were a bit clever you wouldn't need it, looking at the score should confirm it, but if that doesn't make you content then go get the protocols!

:HA!: You are not providing the protocols because you can't find one to prove your point. You seem to have followed her career more closely than I have so I was genuinely asking you to provide links to the protocls that show her landed two 3/3s and a 3A in the same programme because I cannot remember her doing so. Repeating the same thing over and over again does not prove your point. Refusing to provide a link to protocols also makes me think you looked but did not find a single competition where this happened.

Resorting to personal insults also shows that you cannot prove what you are asserting. Also the highlighted section above does not make any sense, looking at absolute scores does not show you what someone has landed in the comeptition. I have to ask myself if you even understand the first thing about figure skating.



Well i've never seen Asada include multiple triple axels as well as several 3/3s in the same performance either you keep pretneding that she does, but that's simply not true. If it is, please post the link to the protocls that show this.

amy: :rofl: you know one thing i realised after this whole discussion is that when people don't want to look at reality nothing will make them accept it!:kickass:

so if it makes your ego feel better, just continue to pretend that Mao never did several 3A in the same program, she hasn't landed several 3-3 and a 3A in the same program... it just never happened, right :scream:

Perhaps English isn't your first language and you did not phrase your statement quite correctly. You said that she landed two 3As and several 3/3s in the same programme. That means two triple axels and more than one 3/3 combination. I think Mao has only done one or two programmes with two 3As and neither had even one 3/3 combination let alone more than one. I ask you to link to a protocl that shows this in order to prove your point, and I'm willing to concede that I am wrong if you can. The fact you tell me to look up the information myself, I think goes a long way to proving that I am right and you are, in fact, wrong.

But by all means keep repeating the same factually incorrect things to see if you can make anyone else belive it.

Mao has achieved some truly amazing technical feats, and trying to over state what she has done simply diminishes her already great acomplishments.

VIETgrlTerifa
07-06-2012, 04:31 PM
It doesn't seem to matter anyway. From the ways things are progressing, Asada will be gone in Round 9.

I do wonder how this poll series would have ended up had Cohen and/or Suguri won a World championship.

dawnie
07-06-2012, 04:42 PM
It doesn't seem to matter anyway. From the ways things are progressing, Asada will be gone in Round 9.

I do wonder how this poll series would have ended up had Cohen and/or Suguri won a World championship.

If Suguri won 2006 Worlds and replaced Meissner on the poll, she would have been the first one voted off too.

And, Amy... you need help girl. I'm sure you can find a reputable shrink somewhere in Tokyo.

magnolia
07-06-2012, 04:43 PM
Round 9 will simply have to be about who your favorite skater is, because there's a convincing argument to be made for all four skaters to say who is the best:

Michelle and Irina are stronger than Mao and Yuna for their longevity. Michelle had more artistry than Irina but Irina had more energy and speed.
Michelle and Irina's programs lack the kind of difficulty and precision seen in Mao's and Yuna's CoP programs.
Mao has skated the most technically challenging program in figure skating history and is the only one within the four to have a triple-axel.
Yuna got the highest score in Olympic history.

Really hard to tell!

judgejudy27
07-06-2012, 04:49 PM
If Suguri won 2006 Worlds and replaced Meissner on the poll, she would have been the first one voted off too.


Suguri might have outlasted Hughes (undeservedly IMO). Cohen in the poll would have been the real interesting thing to see.

dawnie
07-06-2012, 05:00 PM
Suguri might have outlasted Hughes (undeservedly IMO). Cohen in the poll would have been the real interesting thing to see.

Cohen's torch would have probably been snuffed either before or after Chen. I don't think she would have outlasted the final 4 of Slute, Kwan, Kim, and Asada.

Plusdinfo
07-06-2012, 05:07 PM
Mao has skated the most technically challenging program in figure skating history and is the only one within the four to have a triple-axel.


No disrespect to Mao, but her triple axels have never impressed me. They don't seem to get much height or distance, and I don't think her technical side has ever excited me. Rather, I liked some of her 2006-2008ish programs from an artistic standpoint, though I don't remember enjoying her 2010 Olympic programs.

For me, there are no ladies who have surpassed Midori Ito or Tonya Harding in the "Wow!" realm of technical achievement.

bartek
07-06-2012, 05:10 PM
Round 9 will simply have to be about who your favorite skater is, because there's a convincing argument to be made for all four skaters to say who is the best:

Michelle and Irina are stronger than Mao and Yuna for their longevity. Michelle had more artistry than Irina but Irina had more energy and speed.
Michelle and Irina's programs lack the kind of difficulty and precision seen in Mao's and Yuna's CoP programs.
Mao has skated the most technically challenging program in figure skating history and is the only one within the four to have a triple-axel.
Yuna got the highest score in Olympic history.

Really hard to tell!

Well, Irina also had difficult CoP programs in her career with all the levels and high GOE. Her ability to skate very successfully under both system is remarkable.

To Mao's advantages I would also add the fact that she is the most flexible skater out of those, and has the best line, posture and the best positions in spins and spirals.

Irina and Michelle have also full set of triples (apart from axel of course), Mao doesn't do lutz and sal and Yu-Na doesn't do loop. However, if Irina and Michelle had competed under current version of CoP they would've been penalised for flutz as well as Asada and what would they have done? Irina could've got away with it because she actually took off from flat but Michelle definitely flutzed.

magnolia
07-06-2012, 05:11 PM
No disrespect to Mao, but her triple axels have never impressed me. They don't seem to get much height or distance, and I don't think her technical side has ever excited me. Rather, I liked some of her 2006-2008ish programs from an artistic standpoint, though I don't remember enjoying her 2010 Olympic programs.

For me, there are no ladies who have surpassed Midori Ito or Tonya Harding in the "Wow!" realm of technical achievement.

Sure, Mao's triple-axel has achieved less height and distance than the ones achieved by Midori and Tonya, but I do believe Mao tops these two in the number of ratified triple-axels.

Anyway, neither Midori and Tonya are on the poll, and here, you only have to compare Mao's existent triple-axel with the other threes' non-existent triple-axels.

Triple Butz
07-06-2012, 05:44 PM
However, if Irina and Michelle had competed under current version of CoP they would've been penalised for flutz as well as Asada and what would they have done? Irina could've got away with it because she actually took off from flat but Michelle definitely flutzed.

And If Yuna and Mao competed during the Michelle/Irina rivalry they would likely have been punished for not being well-rounded and leaving out triples. Who finished top five at worlds without at least attempting all triples up to the lutz during that time? And your comments about Michelle and Irina's lutzes are just your opinion. Also, there are a lot of skaters with similar take-offs like Suzuki, Nakano, Nagasu (just to name a few) who have been hit or miss with lutz/flip calls. Heck, Zhang and Wagner even got credit for their lutzes at 4CC this year. And who is to say that they wouldn't have cleaned up any minor edge issues had there been a need for it? Just like Mao and Yuna would probably be trying their least favorite triples if it was expected of them.

dawnie
07-06-2012, 06:09 PM
And If Yuna and Mao competed during the Michelle/Irina rivalry they would likely have been punished for not being well-rounded and leaving out triples. Who finished top five at worlds without at least attempting all triples up to the lutz during that time? And your comments about Michelle and Irina's lutzes are just your opinion. Also, there are a lot of skaters with similar take-offs like Suzuki, Nakano, Nagasu (just to name a few) who have been hit or miss with lutz/flip calls. Heck, Zhang and Wagner even got credit for their lutzes at 4CC this year. And who is to say that they wouldn't have cleaned up any minor edge issues had there been a need for it? Just like Mao and Yuna would probably be trying their least favorite triples if it was expected of them.

Kim would have been in the same situation Yamaguchi was in. Yamaguchi always attempted the salchow even though she rarely landed it. Kim has landed the loop a few times during her career though.

Asada would have been way more successful under 6.0 since flutzes and underrotations were not so closely scrutinized.