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t.mann
07-06-2012, 12:23 PM
It's amazing that the gap between Lu and Mao is always around 20.

Really!

current state
Chen : 140
Mao : 120

Amazing. :lol:

bartek
07-06-2012, 12:27 PM
How many of them pulled off 7-triple programs? Michelle did it at least 10 or 11 times. Kim and Slutskaya maybe twice and Mao...did she ever? I'm not discounting the difficulty of those three you mentioned, but being well rounded, consistent, and staying on your feet has to count for something.

Michelle Kwan hit at LEAST 6 triples in every freeskate at worlds from her debut in 1995 until 2004 when she hit 5 which is the same total amount of triples as Yuna's best freeskate at Worlds. Name any other woman who could hit 6 (or 7) triples at Worlds for 9 years in a row. For that reason, Michelle Kwan is simply unmatched as a competitor in my mind.

Irina may not have performed a clean seven triples program as often as Michelle because usually she just attempted 6 triples what was fair enough to win for her. AFAIK Irina had three seven triples programs in her career and all of them are totally unreachable by Kim, Kwan and even Asada technically.

GPF 1999-2000 with 3Lz+3Lo and 3S+3Lo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SXO6s3MCDw

2001 Russian Nats with 3Lz+3Lo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97gZ2GZq7Q

Worlds 2005 with 3Lz+3Lo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8

None of Michelle's programs compare to those technially. Soem of Asada's programs with triple axel and two triple-triples can be compared though but still Asada didn't include all kind of triples.

Besides, Irina skated CLEANLY in the free skate about 15 times in her whole career just about the same as Michelle. That's big consistency.

RumbleFish
07-06-2012, 12:30 PM
One thing this poll does, is fully exposes uberdom among certain posters.

antmanb
07-06-2012, 01:05 PM
more succes and consistency yeah right, so kim getting the gold in vancouver makes her the better skater overall?????

Not at all, where in my post did I even mention the Olympics? I doubt you'll bother replying, since you didn't bother replying to the last message in a previous thread where I proved you wrong too :P

Overall all in their senior careers Yuna was more consistent and had more success. That's pretty much factual when you look at the results and protocols.



one competition speaks for their whole career, and ability? that's a really narrow view, Mao jump technique is the same jump technique that has given her a dosin of titles and let her be the first woman ever to land 3 3A in the same competition
Ok, so one competition where Yuna wins isn't allowed to count for Yuna, but the only time Mao lands three triple axels in one competition (the same competition no less) is allowed to count :confused:



as well as gave her the ability to make her technical content much higher then any of her competitiors! it's also the same jump technique that made her do programs with TWO 3-3 and 3A,
Can you post a link to the protocols that show Mao landing two 3/3s and 3A because I cannot recall a single programme where this happened, unless you are counting that programme she did at nationals when she was 11 (maybe 12) and seriously under-rotated the 3/3s and 3A.



and as far as i remember it's the same jump technique that let her include all the tripple! and when looking beyond that her intrance, air positioning, height, and landing it's all perfectly done!

Again, please post a link to the protocls that show she has done a programme where she landed all the triples in one programme because I cannot recall a single competition where that happened.




if Kims technique was better then Asadas why have I never seen her include multipple 3A's, as well as several 3-3 in the same performance? due to lack of ability or lack of courage? or maybe both!

Well i've never seen Asada include multiple triple axels as well as several 3/3s in the same performance either you keep pretneding that she does, but that's simply not true. If it is, please post the link to the protocls that show this.

briancoogaert
07-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Irina may not have performed a clean seven triples program as often as Michelle because usually she just attempted 6 triples what was fair enough to win for her. AFAIK Irina had three seven triples programs in her career and all of them are totally unreachable by Kim, Kwan and even Asada technically.
:confused:
Except her 2005 Worlds LP, the other performances include cheated 3/3.
Michelle Kwan won 2001 WOrlds, with Irina skating a better LP than her Russian Nats.

briancoogaert
07-06-2012, 01:18 PM
Let's leave her alone. Must have had something really bad for dinner.;)
I guess multiple dinners in a row... ;)

gingercrush
07-06-2012, 01:27 PM
2007 Worlds FS has pre-rotation on the Triple Axel. Rules changed after 2006-2007 season too.

Anyway Mao Asada's 2007 GPF FS is undoubtedly the most difficult program performed by a women. One can argue the negative GOEs on jumps all they want or point to ridiculous supposeable two foot skating all they want. Name one skater that could perform that program?

antmanb
07-06-2012, 01:34 PM
Worlds 2005 with 3Lz+3Lo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8


:rofl: She broke the Zayak rule so that can't count as a seven triple programme, three of the same triple is illegal she didn't get credit for it at the competition.

Also the GPF 3/3s were not the best quality - the 3Lp on the end of the lutz had a good 1/3 or a turn on the landing, and the triple loop she did on the end of the salchow landed right up on the toe, and she a one rev camel spin on the toe pic on the landing. She stood them up but they were not good quality.

Macassar88
07-06-2012, 01:40 PM
:rofl: She broke the Zayak rule so that can't count as a seven triple programme, three of the same triple is illegal she didn't get credit for it at the competition.

Also the GPF 3/3s were not the best quality - the 3Lp on the end of the lutz had a good 1/3 or a turn on the landing, and the triple loop she did on the end of the salchow landed right up on the toe, and she a one rev camel spin on the toe pic on the landing. She stood them up but they were not good quality.

Kind of sad considering that if she had done another triple toe or something before the double loop, she probably would have had the WR score until Yuna came along and broke all those records.

miki88
07-06-2012, 01:41 PM
Anyway Mao Asada's 2007 GPF FS is undoubtedly the most difficult program performed by a women.

Ita. Also according to the protocals, she did get the jumps ratified; she got negative GOE on some of them but they were still counted as fully rotated jumps.

gingercrush
07-06-2012, 01:47 PM
Though if Ito and Harding were transported to now who knows what those two skaters could do. Ito of course could do a Double Loop-Triple Loop which seems crazy difficult to me. Harding had a formidable loop. I guess that era just didn't call for triple-triple combinations involving a loop.

RumbleFish
07-06-2012, 02:01 PM
2007 Worlds FS has pre-rotation on the Triple Axel. Rules changed after 2006-2007 season too.

It was also blatently two footed, but some judges neglected it and didn't deduct accordingly.


Anyway Mao Asada's 2007 GPF FS is undoubtedly the most difficult program performed by a women. One can argue the negative GOEs on jumps all they want or point to ridiculous supposeable two foot skating all they want. Name one skater that could perform that program?

It was certainly one of her better skates as a senior, but it was only one point better than Kim's FS with a fall on an under-rotated 3loop.

gingercrush
07-06-2012, 02:12 PM
It was certainly one of her better skates as a senior, but it was only one point better than Kim's FS with a fall on an under-rotated 3loop.

Her loop isn't marked as underrotated.

RumbleFish
07-06-2012, 02:25 PM
I guess multiple dinners in a row... ;)

Perhaps she happens to be a chronic bad cook. :)

miki88
07-06-2012, 02:42 PM
It's also interesting to see Kim taking a risk with the triple loop during the 2007-2008 season (something she never did or didn't really need to do again after that season). It speaks to the level of difficulty that both girls were aiming for that season.