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Amy03
07-04-2012, 04:46 PM
:rofl: come on! Seriously?! Yuna has had more success and consistency than Mao. Yuna benefitted from the IJS because she has great jump technique on the jumps she does, Mao does not have the same strong jump technique over enough jumps to help her get the GOE. They both competed under the same judging system, at the same time and Mao did not manage as well as Yuna. [/QUOTE]

more succes and consistency yeah right, so kim getting the gold in vancouver makes her the better skater overall????? one competition speaks for their whole career, and ability? that's a really narrow view, Mao jump technique is the same jump technique that has given her a dosin of titles and let her be the first woman ever to land 3 3A in the same competition as well as gave her the ability to make her technical content much higher then any of her competitiors! it's also the same jump technique that made her do programs with TWO 3-3 and 3A, and as far as i remember it's the same jump technique that let her include all the tripple! and when looking beyond that her intrance, air positioning, height, and landing it's all perfectly done!

when it comes to goe you are right Asada didn't have the same beniffit from goe that kim had, but goe is subjective depending on the judge, which is why it's worth got reduced after the olympics.


if Kims technique was better then Asadas why have I never seen her include multipple 3A's, as well as several 3-3 in the same performance? due to lack of ability or lack of courage? or maybe both!

l'etoile
07-04-2012, 04:49 PM
tell me why you only see what you want to see, how about waking up and looking at reality instead of keep beeing delusional! there is a reason why so many rules where suddenly changed after the olympics, and that is probably not because it was working like it should!

Again, systems have been changing and still work in progress. Are you pouring all the blame on Yuna for ISU's revising rules which has been just regularly organized things? How about when they changed the rule and took URs, cheated take-offs more harshly right around the time Mao was the one to beat along with Yuna which I admit was the period Mao was having a slight advance for the wins?

ISU has many reasons to revise and rethink of their rules but one of main reasons for that IMO is that most skaters weren't able to live up to their(ISU's) expectations ergo there were very few skaters who could fully utilize and benefit from the (changed) rules. Then they step back and come up with new, revised ideas for the skaters and system.

In this case, Mao was the one who couldn't live up to that expectation and Yuna was the one who could.

l'etoile
07-04-2012, 04:51 PM
if Kims technique was better then Asadas why have I never seen her include multipple 3A's, as well as several 3-3 in the same performance? due to lack of ability or lack of courage? or maybe both!

:confused::confused:
Ahhhh I see that.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

RumbleFish
07-04-2012, 05:15 PM
:confused::confused:
Ahhhh I see that.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Let's leave her alone. Must have had something really bad for dinner.;)

galaxy
07-04-2012, 05:18 PM
That technique is one thing Yuna's lucky about because unlike some skaters, or a certain skater, she doesn't have a strong federation with full support which are able to talk their skaters up to the judges directly, therefore has been fighting her way onto the top scene all by herself ala Lu Chen.



I'm really tired of hearing Yuna fans saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over again that unlike "a certain skater" or "some skaters " (We all know whom they are implying) she is from "a little and weak federation" which doesn't have power like "a certain country's federation".
If you keep on saying such a thing repeatedly, may I say this? Korea is not a small coutry at all in the whole ISU. It had been pretty dominant for a long time in speed skating and also in short track speed skating until China nearly dethroned it at Vancouber. Moreover, we all know that President of ISU used to be a short track skater, so he might have more friendly feeling toward Korea and favor it more than other coutries, which is an exclusively and extremely strong nation in short track skating.;)

RumbleFish
07-04-2012, 05:21 PM
Please, chill. No need to turn this stupid poll into nationalistic disputes.

EricRohmer
07-04-2012, 06:01 PM
Korea is not a small coutry at all in the whole ISU. It had been pretty dominant for a long time in speed skating and also in short track speed skating until China nearly dethroned it at Vancouber. Moreover, we all know that President of ISU used to be a short track skater, so he might have more friendly feeling toward Korea and favor it more than other coutries, which is an exclusively and extremely strong nation in short track skating.;)

BIG LOL. Speechless.

And Korea has never been strong in speed skating.
Speed skating is the sport at which mainly europeans(Netherlands etc.) excel.
At Vancouver for the first time, Korean speed skaters won Olympic medals(3 golds).


p.s) Ah, and Cinquanta was a speed skater, not a short track skater.

os168
07-04-2012, 06:20 PM
I am not talking about the olympics i am talking generally, and yes I undoubtly think that the unadressed flaws of the system played a big role for yuna at the olympics too! the outrages scores there proves that!

LOl... You are only outraged because you are viewing through darkly tinted glasses.

While no system is perfect, everyone is fully aware of the rules before they participate. While any change in rules are suppose to apply to everyone for the good of the sport, yet after the Olympics, I have never seen so much rules changes designed at propping up one particular skater, and specifically suppress a rival 'for the good of the sport'. It is only possible with a strong federation like Japan and in a political favoured sport like figure skating. It is fairly corrupted and medieval.

Just like old times, if The Power That Be are unable to win by follow the rules, they simply change it. If they can't win with the changed rules, they blame the system, blame other competitors including sabotage their chances by disarment. If that doesn't work, act outraged and sling out even more accusations hoping one get to stick instead of looking at oneself. Problem is history always has a way of revealing the truth in multiple languages and vantage points beyond the initial propaganda.

---------------

Just curious. If Lulu came from a stronger federation and won her '96 WC, I wonder how would it affect her ranking in her later years?

I have always believed her '96 WC loss must have devastated her personally and professionally to have explained the big blib in '97 even if some other reasons were cited - but they were the results not the cause. It must have been devastating to have come so close at her peak and ends up still feeling hopeless. Good job she had the courage to pick herself right back up from rock bottom to do as well as she did in '98 and go out with her 2nd Olympics medal at her 3rd Olympics.

Jenny81
07-04-2012, 06:27 PM
I'm really tired of hearing Yuna fans saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over again that unlike "a certain skater" or "some skaters " (We all know whom they are implying) she is from "a little and weak federation" which doesn't have power like "a certain country's federation".
If you keep on saying such a thing repeatedly, may I say this? Korea is not a small coutry at all in the whole ISU. It had been pretty dominant for a long time in speed skating and also in short track speed skating until China nearly dethroned it at Vancouber. Moreover, we all know that President of ISU used to be a short track skater, so he might have more friendly feeling toward Korea and favor it more than other coutries, which is an exclusively and extremely strong nation in short track skating.;)

What the..... :rofl::rofl::rofl:

invierno
07-04-2012, 06:31 PM
more succes and consistency yeah right, so kim getting the gold in vancouver makes her the better skater overall????? one competition speaks for their whole career, and ability? that's a really narrow view, Mao jump technique is the same jump technique that has given her a dosin of titles and let her be the first woman ever to land 3 3A in the same competition as well as gave her the ability to make her technical content much higher then any of her competitiors! it's also the same jump technique that made her do programs with TWO 3-3 and 3A, and as far as i remember it's the same jump technique that let her include all the tripple! and when looking beyond that her intrance, air positioning, height, and landing it's all perfectly done!

when it comes to goe you are right Asada didn't have the same beniffit from goe that kim had, but goe is subjective depending on the judge, which is why it's worth got reduced after the olympics.


if Kims technique was better then Asadas why have I never seen her include multipple 3A's, as well as several 3-3 in the same performance? due to lack of ability or lack of courage? or maybe both!

Honey, I feel sorry for you.... So you really don't understand about the quality of jumps, do you?
In jumps, there are two aspects: difficulty and quality.
Doing 3-3 and 3As is about 'difficulty'. Doing jumps well is about 'quality'.
Difficulty gets base value and quality gets GOE.
When people say about technical issues about Mao's jumps, they talk about the quality of her jumps, not difficulty. And you keep talking about difficulties alone.
Sure you can do 3-3s, 3As multiple times, but if they were pre-rotated badly, under-rotated badly, taken off on wrong side of edge, had iffy landings, didn't have enough height or distant, then they are simply not good. That is objective. Not subjective. Get over it.

And it was Yuna who did multiple 3-3s in performances. When was the last time Mao did TWO 3-3 and 3A as you said? 2008?
Just go ask Mao's team why she is reworking on her jumps. Nobody fix anything when they are not broken.
If you really want to argue about Mao's greatness, you should focus on other things. Not jump technique. With that, you will never get much of agreement.

Amy03
07-04-2012, 07:04 PM
And it was Yuna who did multiple 3-3s in performances. When was the last time Mao did TWO 3-3 and 3A as you said? 2008?
Just go ask Mao's team why she is reworking on her jumps. Nobody fix anything when they are not broken.
If you really want to argue about Mao's greatness, you should focus on other things. Not jump technique. With that, you will never get much of agreement.[/QUOTE]

both the jumps difficulty and quality is greatly influenced by the jump technique you can't develop good quality jumps and difficulty without a good jump technique!

and yeah you really got to the point with "nobody" you certainly mean yuna who wouldn't go through the trouble to improve her skating (like flexibility, point her toe, including a loop again......)

you know this is another point that sets Mao apart from yuna, cause Mao's passion too keep improving keep finding things she can do better is what shows how skating and Mao can't be separated, and how much skating means for her!


And it was Yuna who did multiple 3-3s in performances
.

exactly in performances and never in the same program! that's the point!

RumbleFish
07-04-2012, 07:07 PM
Oh, my..:wall: :drama:

Amy03
07-04-2012, 07:14 PM
!

invierno
07-04-2012, 07:26 PM
both the jumps difficulty and quality is greatly influenced by the jump technique you can't develop good quality jumps or difficulty without a good jump technique!


This will be my last response to you.

Of course you can rack up difficulty without good technique. Why do you think there are so many flutzers and lippers? Toe-axel? If they need to, skaters will find out ways to squeeze out rotations and will make some poor triple somethings. That happens all the time. It works when the skaters are young, light, small. And most of them usually falter later in their careers as they grow up because poor techniques fail them with their grown up bodies.

Exhibit one: Caroline Zhang.
Do you think she could do 3-3s because her techniques were excellent? :shuffle:

Amy03
07-04-2012, 08:07 PM
This will be my last response to you.

Of course you can rack up difficulty without good technique. Why do you think there are so many flutzers and lippers? Toe-axel? If they need to, skaters will find out ways to squeeze out rotations and will make some poor triple somethings. That happens all the time. It works when the skaters are young, light, small. And most of them usually falter later in their careers as they grow up because poor techniques fail them with their grown up bodies.

Exhibit one: Caroline Zhang.
Do you think she could do 3-3s because her techniques were excellent? :shuffle:

well let this also be my last responce to you!

you're example is kind of usueles

why, because Mao never had deal with toe-axels or lippers, nor did she lose her big tricks after she grow up( she won both her titles with the 2 3-3 in one and 3 3A in the other) so in the end it's out of content, so it all goes back to my previous point without a good technique you wouldn't be able to execute good quality jumps and difficulty, and Mao has showed both, by doing her jumps right and still making it look effortles, and that's how it should look when it's done right!