PeterG
07-10-2012, 08:31 PM
Great posts, snoopy. Thank you for posting! :respect:
I can't recall anyone saying she was purposefully gathering dirt on Tom - ie that she was spying, cataloguing, silently watching. My take is that any dirt she has on him is simply from spending time with him - she didn't gather it, it just piled up around her.
It seemed to me that some people implied that Holmes was a hero to use negative information about her child's father to gain the upper hand. How the information was acquired was not the issue.
It might benefit you to look at a timeline if you are going to continue to argue your side.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tom-cruise-katie-holmes-timeline-divorce-343591
The were engaged about 8 weeks after meeting each other and a month before the Matt Lauer interview
According to this timeline, the Matt Lauer interview was on June 24th, 2005 (and the Brooke Shields comments being earlier to that, as they were referred to in this interview). This timeline says that the couple married on November 18, 2006. More than an entire year had passed where Holmes had time to choose whether to marry Cruise or not.
Other thoughts...
Some interesting comments coming up. Things like being “swept away” and “marrying into a fairytale”, that the man had “all the power” as well as “fairy dust blowing away”. Here’s one definition I found online for sexism:
: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
I grew up in a family where my Mom was the main breadwinner as well as the main caregiver. All my siblings were all older and female. I don’t believe in our family that we had the fairytale/princess thing promoted much (if at all). It was more of an “everybody do their own fair share and everybody needs to pitch in and work to get things done”. The dainty princess thing would have been looked down upon.
So I guess my experience has been different in that I see females as capable and as competent as males. (Perhaps even moreso.) So I find it disheartening when females are referred to in the ways some have expressed in this thread. Like women don’t know what they are doing, they get carried away by some mystical force, that they are basically powerless to the strong males dominating them. I just never boarded that train.
How is it sexist that there exists individuals who rush into things out of love and when the honeymoon ends they see things in a new light??
What I see as sexist is the implication that a naïve ingénue was enslaved by the horrible old ogre into a miserable marriage and forced to provide him with offspring. Of course, this is an exaggeration, but some posts make me thing this is what people are thinking in a way.
Holmes was 28 when the two married, a bit too old for people to be placing her into the role of the ingénue. It’s also sexist to me when Holmes is made to look like a child who wants a tiara and a handsome prince and to be told that she is weally, weally pwetty evewy day.
Maybe it's sexist to take this individual case and turn it into a statement about all women (and I think you and Peter G are the only ones to do that).
I don't believe I have even commented on Holmes (let alone all women). My recent posts have been in reference to other people’s posts about Holmes and how I feel some of these posts are either questionable or objectionable.
And the fact is that in much of the world, women do have a different experience growing up and developing expectations than men. When I was a kid, the boys played at sports and drove toy cars while the girls held pretend weddings for their Barbies, decorated dollhouses and tended to baby dolls. For many of us, it wasn't forced down our throats - it's what we genuinely enjoyed doing as kids. I think it's only natural that many girls of my era, and even Katie's, grew up to want to do all those things for real - get married, create a home, have children.
I disagree. The TV advertisements alone were enough to brainwash youth into what they were supposed to enjoy. Add to that the reactions of adults when a child strays from the expected, as well as peer pressure of other youths who have bought into what was being sold to them... I think the room left for choice became limited. And that’s not to say that children don’t enjoy what they is sold to them. I’m force-fed advertisements for junk food, and I buy into it by buying the products. And I enjoy the junk food! (But not the waistline…) :(
I can't recall anyone saying she was purposefully gathering dirt on Tom - ie that she was spying, cataloguing, silently watching. My take is that any dirt she has on him is simply from spending time with him - she didn't gather it, it just piled up around her.
It seemed to me that some people implied that Holmes was a hero to use negative information about her child's father to gain the upper hand. How the information was acquired was not the issue.
It might benefit you to look at a timeline if you are going to continue to argue your side.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tom-cruise-katie-holmes-timeline-divorce-343591
The were engaged about 8 weeks after meeting each other and a month before the Matt Lauer interview
According to this timeline, the Matt Lauer interview was on June 24th, 2005 (and the Brooke Shields comments being earlier to that, as they were referred to in this interview). This timeline says that the couple married on November 18, 2006. More than an entire year had passed where Holmes had time to choose whether to marry Cruise or not.
Other thoughts...
Some interesting comments coming up. Things like being “swept away” and “marrying into a fairytale”, that the man had “all the power” as well as “fairy dust blowing away”. Here’s one definition I found online for sexism:
: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
I grew up in a family where my Mom was the main breadwinner as well as the main caregiver. All my siblings were all older and female. I don’t believe in our family that we had the fairytale/princess thing promoted much (if at all). It was more of an “everybody do their own fair share and everybody needs to pitch in and work to get things done”. The dainty princess thing would have been looked down upon.
So I guess my experience has been different in that I see females as capable and as competent as males. (Perhaps even moreso.) So I find it disheartening when females are referred to in the ways some have expressed in this thread. Like women don’t know what they are doing, they get carried away by some mystical force, that they are basically powerless to the strong males dominating them. I just never boarded that train.
How is it sexist that there exists individuals who rush into things out of love and when the honeymoon ends they see things in a new light??
What I see as sexist is the implication that a naïve ingénue was enslaved by the horrible old ogre into a miserable marriage and forced to provide him with offspring. Of course, this is an exaggeration, but some posts make me thing this is what people are thinking in a way.
Holmes was 28 when the two married, a bit too old for people to be placing her into the role of the ingénue. It’s also sexist to me when Holmes is made to look like a child who wants a tiara and a handsome prince and to be told that she is weally, weally pwetty evewy day.
Maybe it's sexist to take this individual case and turn it into a statement about all women (and I think you and Peter G are the only ones to do that).
I don't believe I have even commented on Holmes (let alone all women). My recent posts have been in reference to other people’s posts about Holmes and how I feel some of these posts are either questionable or objectionable.
And the fact is that in much of the world, women do have a different experience growing up and developing expectations than men. When I was a kid, the boys played at sports and drove toy cars while the girls held pretend weddings for their Barbies, decorated dollhouses and tended to baby dolls. For many of us, it wasn't forced down our throats - it's what we genuinely enjoyed doing as kids. I think it's only natural that many girls of my era, and even Katie's, grew up to want to do all those things for real - get married, create a home, have children.
I disagree. The TV advertisements alone were enough to brainwash youth into what they were supposed to enjoy. Add to that the reactions of adults when a child strays from the expected, as well as peer pressure of other youths who have bought into what was being sold to them... I think the room left for choice became limited. And that’s not to say that children don’t enjoy what they is sold to them. I’m force-fed advertisements for junk food, and I buy into it by buying the products. And I enjoy the junk food! (But not the waistline…) :(