PDA

View Full Version : Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes Divorcing



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42

Prancer
07-03-2012, 02:03 PM
I said I didn't consider Valkyrie a bomb. But a blockbuster it wasn't and it was part of my point.

Yes, I read your whole post. But no one said that it was a blockbuster. A few people said it was a flop and one person said it made pretty good money for a historical movie.

So while I saw the point, I wasn't sure why you were making it.


But I do believe his unwavering commitment to Scientology has caused the breakdown with this marriage and the one with Nicole. I don't think either woman understood the depth of his devotion and likely felt when obstacles came up that they were more important than his religion. And at some point they realized they weren´t. I think the difference in this situation with Katie is that when she took off her rose coloured glasses she could see what happened with Nicole and learn from that.

I mostly agree with your post, but considering that Nicole proclaimed far and wide that Tom was the one who filed for divorce and it shocked her, I don't think she ever came to the conclusion that she wasn't more important than his religion, nor has she ever said anything that would indicate that it was the issue AFAIK. Not sure what Katie was supposed to have learned from what happened with Nicole, either :confused:. What DID happen with Nicole?

bmcg
07-03-2012, 03:06 PM
Yes, I read your whole post. But no one said that it was a blockbuster. A few people said it was a flop and one person said it made pretty good money for a historical movie.

So while I saw the point, I wasn't sure why you were making it.



I mostly agree with your post, but considering that Nicole proclaimed far and wide that Tom was the one who filed for divorce and it shocked her, I don't think she ever came to the conclusion that she wasn't more important than his religion, nor has she ever said anything that would indicate that it was the issue AFAIK. Not sure what Katie was supposed to have learned from what happened with Nicole, either :confused:. What DID happen with Nicole?

Tom initiated the divorce. Nicole never became a member of Scientology, she said back then she was a mishmash of religions a bit of buddhism, a dash of scientology with a big helping of Catholism (she was raised Catholic and still felt a connection). It was rumoured at the time that as Tom´s status in the religion rose having a wife that wasn't committed was an problem. Nicole was considered a subversive person. I´d say from that Nicole learned his religion was more important than their relationship.

What could Katie learn from this. Well Tom initiated the divorce with Nicole and at the time she appears taken by surprise, unprepared. The children opted to stay with Tom and were raised as scientologists. Dispite Nicoles discreet interviews and her careful words she mentioned years back that the children call her Nicole (something they know she hates because she said in that interview she tells them that). They also had less contact with her. Maybe what Katie learned from this is to be the one to strike first and do everything in her power to establish herself as the best option for sole custody for Suri.

All any of us are doing is reading interviews, articles and coming to our own conclusions. These are mine. But Katie lived that life and she spent all that time with Tom´s first two children. She knows how they were raised, how much time they spent with Nicole, likely how their relationship is and I logically conclude from that that she doesn't seem to want the same thing for Suri. She wants control over Suri´s future, she doesn't want to share it with her husband.

I can´t provide links to these interviews. The were in magazines I read and I can´t seem to find online copies. The only scrap I can throw is:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/05/isabella-cruise-nicole-kidman-scientology
It makes a quick reference to the interview I recall reading. I also read into the comment the they are now on good terms to indicate that that maybe wasn't always the case.

I also find it interesting that just a month and a half before Katie Holmes files for divorce a child from a previous marriage of Tom (who has lived a pretty private life up to that point) gives an interview about her life where she mentions
“I love mom,” she gushes. “She’s my mom. She’s great. I see her sometimes [in Nashville] and I speak to her.” Interesting because if the rumours are true that this isn't a complete shock to Tom, that he had asked her to hold off for six months before making any announcements. That if that conversation really happened between Tom and Katie and Katie has been secretly leasing an appartment in New York for two months then Isabella´s interview falls into the time frame when things were getting serious. Why does that strike me as interesting? Because maybe there is a small chance Isabella made the interview to slip in the fact that she loves her "mom" and that they visit and speak with each other as future evidence against an argument that Katie might come up with in court about how if Tom gains custody she will lose contact with her child much like Nicole did after her divorce.

I do hope for Suri that Katie does get sole custody. My gut feeling is this way the child is more likely to develop a relationship with both parents. The reverse happens and I think Katie is going to be cut off from the child and have little influence over how she is raised. Katie is clearly worried about something or she wouldn't have been so cloak and dagger about this whole thing. Good luck to them all.

WindSpirit
07-03-2012, 03:32 PM
First possibility to come to mind is Magnolia.

Edit: Wahoo, I'm a fantastic guesser (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000129/bio)! :cheer: Magnolia is still on my list of to-watch films though. :shuffle: Yep, it's Magnolia. The impeccable acting, directing, the music, the atmosphere...it fills up your senses and doesn't let go until the end. It's not an easy film, it's long and tense and you may not want to watch it again (although I bought it right away after I saw it), but when you do for the first time: wow.

Two my favorite scenes:

Pharmacy (http://youtu.be/uk54gpIEL_o) Effing brilliant, that's all I'll say about it.

On the phone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k0-pSCwcx4) It might not seem like much taken out of context, but I remember watching it and feeling the hairs on my neck standing up. Love PSH.

WindSpirit
07-03-2012, 04:23 PM
Yes, I read your whole post. But no one said that it was a blockbuster. A few people said it was a flop and one person said it made pretty good money for a historical movie.

So while I saw the point, I wasn't sure why you were making it. You know there's a thing as being too analytical? It's like masturbation without pleasure. :lol:

The argument was about whether the movie was a bomb or was it successful. Someone argued it was successful because it made quite a bit of money. I agreed it wasn't a bomb, but argued it didn't earn enough money for it to be considered a success for a superstar like Cruise who is excepted to make blockbusters. And some people (including many producers) even think that if isn't a blockbuster, then it's a flop. If it isn't the first on the opening weekend, then it failed, etc. Which brings me to the original question that started it "I don't get how Valkyrie is considered a bomb" to which Peter replied with "It's a bomb because somebody on FSU did not like it. And then three others agree with that person." No, it might be considered a bomb for a few different reasons, too.

antmanb
07-03-2012, 04:38 PM
^ ok. Go have a secret affair with the pope, have his love child, and then split with him threatening to expose the affair. Then come back and tell us if "Christianity" aka the pope's hired goons, are "after you".


I don't even get what you're trying to say :confused: the only thing I was pointing out is how utterly stupid the article you linked to is. Scientology is an idealogy not a physical thing. How can it chase, follow, threaten or do anything to another person? Scientologists can do all of those things. People connected to Tom Cruise can, but scientology can do none of those things, just as Christianity would nothing to you if you slept with, assasinated or did anything else to the pope. Human beings can do things.

michiruwater
07-03-2012, 04:41 PM
When Katie was a lot younger, she said in a interview that when she was a girl, her dream was to marry Tom Cruise (http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/tom-cruise-and-katie-holmes-what-went-wrong-2012296). And then when she's in her mid-20s, Tom Cruise decides to date her... and she becomes pregnant. I'm not terribly surprised she married him. I don't know what I'd do if my childhood celebrity crush (Ewan McGregor) actually wanted to marry me :lol: Even if I knew he was crazy. Which he isn't, because Ewan McGregor's amazing.

michiruwater
07-03-2012, 04:41 PM
I don't even get what you're trying to say :confused: the only thing I was pointing out is how utterly stupid the article you linked to is. Scientology is an idealogy not a physical thing. How can it chase, follow, threaten or do anything to another person? Scientologists can do all of those things. People connected to Tom Cruise can, but scientology can do none of those things, just as Christianity would nothing to you if you slept with, assasinated or did anything else to the pope. Human beings can do things.

Yeah, they should have used Scientologists instead of Scientology. Other than that, the article is still super creepy.

Cyn
07-03-2012, 05:31 PM
Can't prenups specify in which religion any children will be raised?

It depends on how contentious the issue is. I don't know about prenups, but when it comes to marriages splitting up, from what I know, it's generally not included in what is considered a "boiler plate" divorce, but I would wager a guess that most Hollywood divorces aren't like that. When my first husband (MiniCyn's Dad) and I divorced, I made sure to include a stipulation that her religious upbringing was Judaism -- her father was raised a Catholic and left the Church years ago and overall he holds a general contempt for most religions in general.


It's always possible Katie Holmes will become a better actress for all this. She's got some depth to her now.

I would assume her acting skills are superb if she could remain married to Tom Cruise for 5 years.


I dont get why TC is such a force. Or why he's so popular. I think his acting is just okay, and he comes across as a complete arrogant idiot in most interviews. Why everyone is so enamored of him is beyond me. But he keeps selling box office tickets (well, I guess except for Valkyrie and Rock of Ages) so I guess I'm in the minority.

For me, he falls into the category of "WTF do people see in him?" Going all the way back to the early 80s when he had a minor role in The Outsiders (followed by Risky Business), I never got all the hoopla about him. He's one of the Hollywood actors that makes my skin crawl :scream:.


I don't get how Valkyrie is considered a bomb.

It made over 200 million worldwide and the budget was around 75 million.

Making money doesn't necessarily mean that a movie is good. I saw Valkyrie not because of Cruise, but because I'm a major WWII history buff, and I thought the movie sucked. The Stauffenberg resemblance was there, but I didn't buy him in that role for one second.

As for all the angst that Peter G (as much as I love ya, babe) is having about the negative comments leveled at Cruise, all I can say is that the ass brought it on himself by his own behavior. Don't want to be perceived as a jerk? Don't act like one or make obnoxious comments. His treatment of Brooke Shields regarding her post-partum depression was despicable, and he deserved every bit of crap that he received for it.

Latte
07-03-2012, 05:39 PM
Has anybody here considered that perhaps PeterG is a Scientologist?

Yes, I have, I was trying to make up my mind if I should ask him or not.
Didn't want to be too nosey or rude, but it was a explanation for his being so upset about this thread.
XOXO Peter my friend.

Jenny
07-03-2012, 05:48 PM
As for all the angst that Peter G (as much as I love ya, babe) is having about the negative comments leveled at Cruise, all I can say is that the ass brought it on himself by his own behavior.

I think his credibility on a personal and perhaps professional level might be at stake here. We're all used to the spin doctoring about how happy couples are and then hearing about a split, but in Tom's case he's been so over the top that it's gone beyond spin to just plain lying.

Even after his overhyping when they first got together, one could almost imagine that they actually were really happy and that he was telling the truth. Now of course we know that's not so.

Again, it's not like anyone needs to share issues in their marriage, but it's that Tom is so aggressive about telling the world how happy his life and marriage and family are. Of course, Katie could have been keeping much of this to herself, but any husband who claims to be that much in love should have known, and should have toned down the hype long ago.

Personally, I'm not prepared to believe a single thing that comes out of his mouth after this, and I wonder how many others might feel the same way, and how that might affect his public image, his box office and his career.

PeterG
07-03-2012, 06:17 PM
Has anybody here considered that perhaps PeterG is a Scientologist?

We are watching you. :sekret:


Yes.

You too, sister!


How does that article even make sense? Scientology is after her? That's like saying i went out of my door and found christianity lurking around a corner tailing me. As I left my front door Judaeism was following my every move :confused:

It's the Muslims that are after me. Are the Muslims leaving you alone? How come they're after only me? :wuzrobbed :drama:

Stefanie
07-03-2012, 06:30 PM
This may be a dumb question, but could one presume that Katie did not fully research the practices of Scientology prior to marrying Cruise? If I was going to marry someone who practiced a religion of which I was unfamiliar, I'd certainly read up as much as I could about it so I'd know what I'm getting myself into.

kwanfan1818
07-03-2012, 06:36 PM
For the record I don´t believe for a minute she married him as some part of a contract to further her career. I think she was swept off her feet, caught up in a fantasy and very much in love.


When Katie was a lot younger, she said in a interview that when she was a girl, her dream was to marry Tom Cruise (http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/tom-cruise-and-katie-holmes-what-went-wrong-2012296). And then when she's in her mid-20s, Tom Cruise decides to date her... and she becomes pregnant. I'm not terribly surprised she married him. I don't know what I'd do if my childhood celebrity crush (Ewan McGregor) actually wanted to marry me :lol: Even if I knew he was crazy. Which he isn't, because Ewan McGregor's amazing.

When I first read that about Holmes, I thought of Diana Spencer, who was in a prime position (socially) to know that Prince Charles was still involved, at least emotionally, with Camilla Parker-Bowles, but her childhood self that wanted to marry the Prince was oblivious.

rjblue
07-03-2012, 06:40 PM
I would say "The Mafia is after me.", so saying "Scientology is after me" sounds like the correct semantics. It is not a church or a cult. Its a criminal organization that defrauds susceptible people.

The connection of this divorce to this evil business is the only reason I'm following the story. I hope Suri is more protected than his other two children.

bmcg
07-03-2012, 06:54 PM
You too, sister!



I´ll enjoy the attention :D