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overedge
07-03-2012, 03:45 AM
And which religions are the "ok" religions? :confused: I'm curious to how you respond because I wanna spend five seconds googling those religions to find all kinds of sh** that religion has put people through! :)

The question that was asked was about Scientology's practices, not how Scientology compared to other religions. The fact that other religions have done bad things doesn't negate the fact that Scientology has questionable practices too.

WindSpirit
07-03-2012, 04:53 AM
It's a bomb because somebody on FSU did not like it. And then three others agree with that person. :lol: Have you decided to be a contrarian in this thread (for a change since you usually love all kinds of gossip about celebrities) and challenge every single thing that people post just for sport?

Many people haven't even heard about the movie Valkyrie, let alone seen it. If many people haven't even heard about it, doesn't it constitute some kind of a bomb, in the US at least? We're not talking about Giovanni Ribisi kind of an actor here who doesn't mind if he stars in esoteric movies if only he can practice and hone his craft. We're talking about Tom Cruise, a superstar who's paid tens of millions per movie to make it a blockbuster. His "craft" is really making money and being a superstar.

Now, if you want to talk about money. Yes, it's true that Valkyrie made $200 million worldwide (US + abroad). American movies usually make more abroad than in the US, even if they're generally considered flops (even if only a small percentage of people are going to see it in different countries, together it's usually a bigger number that the US alone) To consider a movie a bomb or not, one has to look at how much it cost to make and how much it made in the US, because that's what really counts, doesn't it?

Valkyrie cost $75 million to make. Made $83 million in the US (only an $8 million gain = bubkes) and $117 million abroad (and if I had to venture a guess, I'd say many people abroad saw it for another infamous guy, more than for Tom Cruise, namely Hitler). I wouldn't consider it a bomb since it earned almost 1.5 of its cost and the reviews weren't entirely bad. But they weren't great, either. So it wasn't a spectacular success either artistically or money-wise. If you compare it to other Tom's movies, those that were considered blockbusters, they earned considerably more and were certainly more popular.

BTW, an interesting tidbit. For what I consider one of Tom's best roles he was only paid $100,000. Yes, one hundred thousand dollars. And no, it wasn't 30/20 years ago. The movie made bubkes worldwide (barely recovered the cost, as little as it was). Still I consider it one of the best movies ever made and my second favorite movie ever.


And which religions are the "ok" religions? :confused: I'm curious to how you respond because I wanna spend five seconds googling those religions to find all kinds of sh** that religion has put people through! :) I for one wouldn't mind (an atheist here), too bad it'd be off topic. Scientology is not.

If you want to challenge things, you better come up with something better than others have vices too, are you perfect yourself, everything can be bad if you look at if from the right angle, etc.

julieann
07-03-2012, 06:24 AM
Valkyrie was a smashing success for struggling studio United Artists partly owned by Tom Cruise. It grossed $200,276,784 worldwide. It cost around 90 million to make plus 70 million for marketing. That is a good take for a historical war movie, not to mention his resemblance to Stauffenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stauffenberg_and_Cruise.JPG) was uncanny. I thought it was good.

Jayar
07-03-2012, 06:41 AM
Has anybody here considered that perhaps PeterG is a Scientologist?

PeterG
07-03-2012, 07:33 AM
I for one wouldn't mind (an atheist here), too bad it'd be off topic. Scientology is not.

This thread is about a divorce. This thread is not about Scientology. Or are you saying in any thread about anyone famous it is okay for posters to attack that person's religion, simply because something of note happened in that person's life?


If you want to challenge things, you better come up with something better than others have vices too, are you perfect yourself, everything can be bad if you look at if from the right angle, etc.

The thread drifted into attacks on religion. I did not open that door.

Mayra
07-03-2012, 08:10 AM
This thread is about a divorce. This thread is not about Scientology. Or are you saying in any thread about anyone famous it is okay for posters to attack that person's religion, simply because something of note happened in that person's life?


This thread is about a divorce, but the rumors surrounding the divorce directly revolve around Tom's religion and Katie's alleged reluctance to be a part of it and/or let her child be a part of it. It's not a simple case of someone bringing up his religion just to trash it.

Unfortunately for Tom, it's reached a point where anytime anything of negative note happens in his personal life or otherwise, Scientology is usually brought up as the culprit.

Just saying...:shuffle:

WindSpirit
07-03-2012, 08:14 AM
Valkyrie was a smashing success for struggling studio United Artists partly owned by Tom Cruise. It grossed $200,276,784 worldwide. It cost around 90 million to make plus 70 million for marketing. That is a good take for a historical war movie, not to mention his resemblance to Stauffenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stauffenberg_and_Cruise.JPG) was uncanny. I thought it was good. I posted the stats already. I didn't consider it a smashing success even when I didn't know they also spent 70 million (what?) for marketing. It certainly wasn't a smashing success in a Tom Cruise movie terms. I was going to say "in a Bryan Singer movie terms - by all means" but then I checked his stats and it seems like he's come a loooong way since The Usual Suspects. His three other movies' stats are as follow: (in the US alone):

$157,299,717
$200,081,192
$214,949,694

Valkyrie: $83,077,833

So even for Bryan Singer it was a bit low.


This thread is about a divorce. This thread is not about Scientology. Scientology is going to play a role in this divorce, and a big one it seems.


Or are you saying in any thread about anyone famous it is okay for posters to attack that person's religion, simply because something of note happened in that person's life? Why would I say that? If you think it logically follows, you're wrong.

And please, get off that high horse, you look weird and the horse farts.


The thread drifted into attacks on religion. I did not open that door. Scientology is not a religion. It's a cult. Well, most religions are in some ways, but Scientology is a one man made-up insane, brain-washing and dangerous cult.

Prancer
07-03-2012, 12:43 PM
The rumors surrounding his marriages have been persistent, but Katie surely heard them all before she married him, and she was 27.

One does wonder what she expected to happen here. If one marries and has a child with the face of Scientology, one should expect Scientology to be a huge factor.


BTW, the gossip mill didn't spare Nicole, either. For years it was rumored she was hermaphrodite, along the lines of one of the characters in Middlesex, and that's why they did not have biological children.

Yes, I think that's what part of what she was referring to when she said she didn't care what people thought of her sexuality.


To consider a movie a bomb or not, one has to look at how much it cost to make and how much it made in the US, because that's what really counts, doesn't it?

Studios prefer to make money domestically because they usually get a bigger cut of the profits that way, but otherwise? Money is money. Plenty of movies are made in the US strictly for overseas money--although those aren't Tom Cruise movies. OTOH, Tom Cruise's pay is often based in part on overseas profits.


If you compare it to other Tom's movies, those that were considered blockbusters, they earned considerably more and were certainly more popular.

If you compare any movie that isn't a blockbuster to a blockbuster, it's going to look like a bomb. Valkyrie clearly wasn't a blockbuster, but if you want to talk about a Cruise bomb, I'd say Knight and Day probably comes closer to that description than Valkyrie. For one thing, no one expected Valkyrie to do all that well; historical movies usually don't. Knight and Day, OTOH, was expected to be a big hit. Which brings us back to domestic versus overseas profits:

But still, overseas box office does matter, more and more. And stars who have a huge global following are more likely to open a movie than ones who are only famous in the U.S. — just look at the fact that the world-famous Tom Cruise is still starring in movies, despite his ongoing backlash in North America. Mumpower points out that Cruise's Knight and Day only made about $76 million in the U.S., against a production budget of $117 million. But since Knight and Day made $262 million overseas, chances are it will end up being profitable once home-video revenues are factored in.

http://io9.com/5747305/how-much-money-does-a-movie-need-to-make-to-be-profitable

allezfred
07-03-2012, 12:47 PM
Valkyrie was a smashing success for struggling studio United Artists partly owned by Tom Cruise. It grossed $200,276,784 worldwide. It cost around 90 million to make plus 70 million for marketing. That is a good take for a historical war movie, not to mention his resemblance to Stauffenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stauffenberg_and_Cruise.JPG) was uncanny. I thought it was good.

I caught it on TV here and I thought it was dire. It's never a good sign when you spend almost the entire film wishing the heros would be caught. :shuffle:

Haven't seen "Eyes Wide Shut" (and probably won't ever), but it did at least contribute to my favourite porn title parody Thighs Wide Shut . ;)

bmcg
07-03-2012, 12:54 PM
Has anybody here considered that perhaps PeterG is a Scientologist?

Yes.


This thread is about a divorce. This thread is not about Scientology. Or are you saying in any thread about anyone famous it is okay for posters to attack that person's religion, simply because something of note happened in that person's life?.

I don't think you can separate the two in this case. For the sake of fairness perhaps it's all in Katie's head but she has gone about this divorce (the preparation and the control of information the "leaks" out ") as a woman on the offensive and genuinely concerned about the safety of her and her child. Secretly preparing her escape, and it does look more like an escape then a simple divorce between two people who fell out of love.

For the record I donīt believe for a minute she married him as some part of a contract to further her career. I think she was swept off her feet, caught up in a fantasy and very much in love. It happens all the time that women ignore the red flags (just look at Morozov) believing it's different with them, that they are special and nothing bad will happen to them. I also think it was the same with Nicole, she was in love. People always seem to need to make up complicated fantasies about secret agreements and contracts when history shows time and time again women fall for men over and over regardless of their past history. When a man is showering you with that much love and attention and going to great extremes to woo you it's easy to believe you are different because you are made to feel special.

But I do believe his unwavering commitment to Scientology has caused the breakdown with this marriage and the one with Nicole. I don't think either woman understood the depth of his devotion and likely felt when obstacles came up that they were more important than his religion. And at some point they realized they werenīt. I think the difference in this situation with Katie is that when she took off her rose coloured glasses she could see what happened with Nicole and learn from that. And that seems to be to do everything in her power to legally and in public opinion establish herself as the best option for custody of Suri. My gut tells me it isn't to punish him, it's to protect Suri from something she fears. I also think itīs her side that leaked the Sea Organization theory. And I believe that could be a genuine fear because Tom is highly placed in this religion and must feel some obligation for his child to do what is asked of others.

antmanb
07-03-2012, 01:04 PM
:sekret: oh oh... the Scienos are closing in on Katie!

http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/01/katie-holmes-tom-cruise-divorce-scientology/

How does that article even make sense? Scientology is after her? That's like saying i went out of my door and found christianity lurking around a corner tailing me. As I left my front door Judaeism was following my every move :confused:

antmanb
07-03-2012, 01:39 PM
BTW, an interesting tidbit. For what I consider one of Tom's best roles he was only paid $100,000. Yes, one hundred thousand dollars. And no, it wasn't 30/20 years ago. The movie made bubkes worldwide (barely recovered the cost, as little as it was). Still I consider it one of the best movies ever made and my second favorite movie ever.


Which movie?

Anita18
07-03-2012, 01:44 PM
Which movie?
First possibility to come to mind is Magnolia.

Edit: Wahoo, I'm a fantastic guesser (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000129/bio)! :cheer: Magnolia is still on my list of to-watch films though. :shuffle:

berthesghost
07-03-2012, 01:46 PM
^ ok. Go have a secret affair with the pope, have his love child, and then split with him threatening to expose the affair. Then come back and tell us if "Christianity" aka the pope's hired goons, are "after you".

I'll be shocked if Katie ends up with sole custody of the magi. Girl married the mob.

WindSpirit
07-03-2012, 01:53 PM
If you compare any movie that isn't a blockbuster to a blockbuster, it's going to look like a bomb. I said I didn't consider Valkyrie a bomb. But a blockbuster it wasn't and it was part of my point. Tom Cruise is a superstar paid tens of millions of dollars, expected to make blockbusters. So while a non blockbuster isn't necessarily a flop for Cruise, it isn't a success either.