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Subway
07-02-2012, 07:13 PM
I don't believe CoP would have helped Sasha - she would have gotten many edge calls. Still I agree with Kwanatic - those were the days. She had a star presence and was a perfect foil to Kwan, as well as exciting in her own right. Technique or not, loved the air she got on her jumps.

leafygreens
07-03-2012, 03:57 PM
Considering there's been no one like Kwan before or since, if Sasha had competed at any other time in history she would have won multiple nationals and we would be calling her "great" instead of "splatfest". There were so many times that it was only Kwan keeping her from the top. I think what she accomplished, in that period of time, was really extraordinairy.

I do wish Sasha would have stuck around a little longer after Kwan retired, because there was really no one Sasha couldn't have beaten. 06 World's was an anomaly IMO. There's only two big ones where Sasha wasn't competing against Kwan. Think of what she could have done if she kept going. For some reason, Sasha got stars in her eyes about becoming an actress, rather than striking while the iron was hot with skating.

AndyWarhol
07-04-2012, 06:45 AM
Considering there's been no one like Kwan before or since, if Sasha had competed at any other time in history she would have won multiple nationals and we would be calling her "great" instead of "splatfest". There were so many times that it was only Kwan keeping her from the top. I think what she accomplished, in that period of time, was really extraordinairy.

I do wish Sasha would have stuck around a little longer after Kwan retired, because there was really no one Sasha couldn't have beaten. 06 World's was an anomaly IMO. There's only two big ones where Sasha wasn't competing against Kwan. Think of what she could have done if she kept going. For some reason, Sasha got stars in her eyes about becoming an actress, rather than striking while the iron was hot with skating.

She was quoted in that she had planned to win 2002 and retire.. presumably to become and actress.. so its understandable she left the sport after 2006 worlds.

i agree though, in any other time, she would have been considered great.

berthesghost
07-04-2012, 06:54 AM
Even had she won all that's nats titles Kwan supposedly kept her from, she still splatted at all of them, and she never could wins worlds, with Kwan above or below her, or not even in attendance, so "great" is a stretch IMHO. I'm actually surprised she managed the one nat title she did get. I predicted kimmie to win 06 nats, but she postponed that win till worlds.

RD
07-04-2012, 06:56 AM
I wasn't. I mean, no one else there was in her league...

Worlds was a different story though. Somehow I expected her to give that one away, perhaps to Suguri who has beaten Cohen in the past. No way did I think Meissner would win though.

kwanette
07-04-2012, 01:29 PM
Regardless of how she placed at 06 Worlds, she went and I give her props for that. She was always a "spot" earner from 02 on.

UGG
07-04-2012, 03:50 PM
Even had she won all that's nats titles Kwan supposedly kept her from, she still splatted at all of them, and she never could wins worlds, with Kwan above or below her, or not even in attendance, so "great" is a stretch IMHO. I'm actually surprised she managed the one nat title she did get. I predicted kimmie to win 06 nats, but she postponed that win till worlds.

I agree.

Sasha's resume with Kwan

1 US title
4 silver
1 bronze

2 world silver medals
1 bronze world medal

Olympic Silver Medalist

Sasha's resume if MK retired after 2002

3 time US champion
3 silver

2 world silver medals
2 bronze medals

Olympic Silver medalist


So she would have two more US titles and another world bronze medal if Michelle had retired in 2002. Obviously great accomplishments but she still would not be seen as some great champion. Even if you eliminate Michelle all together it increases her national titles to 5 but she still has zero world or Olympic Championships. She would, however, have another Olympic medal (bronze) and another bronze for worlds. 5 time US champion would be impressive though.

I wish she would have stayed after 2006. She would have wiped the floor with everyone at nationals and I am sure could have mustered top 5 at worlds between 2007-2009....although in 2008 she would have had to place 3rd or better to get the three spots because Kimmie would not have gone. So idk if we would have had three spots even with Sasha on the 2008 US team. I just went totally OT lol but its interesting to think about.

I do really enjoy watching her skate and wish we had a star like her now.

RD
07-04-2012, 07:10 PM
The problem with saying so-and-so would have this title or that medal if AB skater was not present is that you can't always guarantee that performances would be the same or even similar otherwise (the "X-Factor" as I call it). Especially if the skater wouldn't have been replaced- wait times between groups might be different.

If Cohen did not have Kwan at 2003, 2004, 2005 nationals, who's to say she would have skated the same? Perhaps without Kwan around to push her further, she would have stagnated and slipped. Or, conversely, she may have received more crowd support and that may have enabled her to get "in the zone". I bet if Cohen had skipped 2006 Worlds, people would have assumed she would have won if she did go. Well, look what happened when she went.

Ditto to her staying after 2006. I truly think she was burned out after Torino and peaked as a skater during the 2003-2006 quad. It would have been downhill for her from that point on, and I don't think she would have had a better result than Meissner in 2007. When she came back in 2010, she seemed ok in the short program but was clearly undertrained and underprepared for the free skate. It was barely a month at that point until the ladies' FS in Vancouver and there is no way she would have developed enough stamina to get through an FS by then, especially at the level required to medal given how stiff the competition was.

UGG
07-05-2012, 01:41 AM
The problem with saying so-and-so would have this title or that medal if AB skater was not present is that you can't always guarantee that performances would be the same or even similar otherwise (the "X-Factor" as I call it). Especially if the skater wouldn't have been replaced- wait times between groups might be different.

If Cohen did not have Kwan at 2003, 2004, 2005 nationals, who's to say she would have skated the same? Perhaps without Kwan around to push her further, she would have stagnated and slipped. Or, conversely, she may have received more crowd support and that may have enabled her to get "in the zone". I bet if Cohen had skipped 2006 Worlds, people would have assumed she would have won if she did go. Well, look what happened when she went.

Ditto to her staying after 2006. I truly think she was burned out after Torino and peaked as a skater during the 2003-2006 quad. It would have been downhill for her from that point on, and I don't think she would have had a better result than Meissner in 2007. When she came back in 2010, she seemed ok in the short program but was clearly undertrained and underprepared for the free skate. It was barely a month at that point until the ladies' FS in Vancouver and there is no way she would have developed enough stamina to get through an FS by then, especially at the level required to medal given how stiff the competition was.

I know-but i think its safe to assume she would have won nationals in 2004 and 2005 without Michelle there. Otherwise you are talking Jenny Kirk as the 2004 US champion and Kimmie Meissner as the 2005 US champion-a year before the Olympics. I get your point though because you used a great example with 2006 worlds.

RD
07-05-2012, 01:55 AM
The pressure on her in 2004 and 2005 would also have been greater since she would then be the overwhelming favorite. That immediately changes the dynamic of the entire competition. And don't forget the others too. Would Meissner have gone for the 3A in 2005 without MK? But I can understand your point since Kirk was clearly a step down (maybe even 2 steps down) from where Cohen was, even if the latter had an off-night. So even in the case that Cohen was worse, it might have still been enough for the judges to hand her the win (think Czisny in 2009).

Another good example of the X-Factor just happened this year, with Ashley Wagner winning 4CCs, edging Mao Asada. If, say, she was 3rd at Nationals but still won 4CCs, everyone would have been crying out that she should have gone to worlds, and retrospectively saying that if she went, we would have had a world medalist or even a world champ. Well guess what- Wagner DID go to worlds but ended up "a lowly" 4th. (In perspective, though, that's ties as the best result for the women in 5 years, so it's actually good.)

Sparks
07-05-2012, 02:02 AM
Another X factor is injury.

Maofan7
04-30-2013, 11:11 PM
Recent interview with Sasha Cohen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5QbgRwTCTA) - apologies if it has already been posted previously

chanunderrated
05-01-2013, 12:48 AM
Considering there's been no one like Kwan before or since, if Sasha had competed at any other time in history she would have won multiple nationals and we would be calling her "great" instead of "splatfest". There were so many times that it was only Kwan keeping her from the top. I think what she accomplished, in that period of time, was really extraordinairy.

I do wish Sasha would have stuck around a little longer after Kwan retired, because there was really no one Sasha couldn't have beaten. 06 World's was an anomaly IMO. There's only two big ones where Sasha wasn't competing against Kwan. Think of what she could have done if she kept going. For some reason, Sasha got stars in her eyes about becoming an actress, rather than striking while the iron was hot with skating.

Sasha would have been owned by the young jumpers like Kim, Asada, and even Ando had she skayed around. She couldnt even win against not only Kwan but Slutskaya who was just a jumper, and Arakawa who was inconsistent and not a big judges favorite even when she skated well. It would have only been much harder to win against people like Kim and Asada who were techinically at a much higher level than Sasha, had consistency, and had the artistry as well, and stronger basics (edge, flow, speed) than Sasha.


As others have said Kwan didnt keep Sasha from much. A couple more U.S titles, big deal. No World titles still, maybe an Olympic medal if she still beats Suguri from the final group in 2002. I dont think it is even as much as people are saying since if Kwan wasnt around Hughes would solidified herself as #1 in status firmly and been given the 2002, and maybe 2000 titles, instead of Sasha. So that leaves 2004, 2005, and 2006, but Meissner could have challenged her in both the latter years, and since Sasha couldnt win a Worlds even without Michelle, and her jumping was her weakness against people like Slutskaya, Arakawa, and even Suguri, the USFSA might have pushed more support on Meissner by then.


Sasha basically skated at 3 big events without Michelle in a way. 2006 Olympics, 2006 Worlds, and 2005 Worlds where Kwan was never a factor for gold or silver right from the start, and Sasha skated well for once, but still couldnt skate well enough to beat someone else. 2004 Worlds too Kwan had no hope whatsoever of the gold medal entering the LP and Sasha still blew it.

fenway2
05-01-2013, 01:18 AM
I know-but i think its safe to assume she would have won nationals in 2004 and 2005 without Michelle there. Otherwise you are talking Jenny Kirk as the 2004 US champion and Kimmie Meissner as the 2005 US champion-a year before the Olympics. Well the US has recently had Czisny as a controversial two-time US champion and Flatt was national champion going into the Olympics. I'll take Kirk and Meissner any day of the century.

dorianhotel
05-01-2013, 07:39 AM
Well the US has recently had Czisny as a controversial two-time US champion and Flatt was national champion going into the Olympics. I'll take Kirk and Meissner any day of the century.

Flatt is a much better skater than Kirk. Kirks best Worlds was a 15th or something. Flatt was 5th at Worlds and 7th at the Olympics which would have been 4th without two wrong downgrades. Czisny is also a much better skater than Kirk, and in terms of pure skating ability anyway better than Meissner.