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View Full Version : Minimum Total Technical Scores for 2012-13 ISU Championships (including Jr Worlds)



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kwanfan1818
06-29-2012, 06:07 AM
You never know with the ISU: the Council put through IJS without a vote of the ISU Congress. While they justified the action because of the vote in Congress, they had the authority to up the minimum scores without the vote, making the prelims unnecessary, since it's all in the Special Regs.

Ziggy
06-29-2012, 06:18 AM
Damnit, this is the biggest disaster to happen to skating since I started to follow it...

DaveRocks
06-29-2012, 06:27 AM
:( and :eek: and :yikes:

And another :(

kwanfan1818
06-29-2012, 06:44 AM
The change to give a 10% factor to the base value of jumps after the 1 min 25 sec mark should help some of the skaters who were close to the World TES SP minimum (28). Lafuente might reconsider doing all of her jumps in a row at the beginning of her program, since she was .57 from making the minimum at TEB.

Among the Canadian Ladies, Osmond scored 49.06 with one fewer element (no CH Spiral) in her Junior Worlds FS, and she was the only one to meet next year's minimums for next season. Lacoste came closest at Rostelecom for her FS (46.98). Lacoste will have a chance at Skate Canada. If Skate Canada does not give Phaneuf the TBA at Skate Canada, then she will have no chance at a GP, since, not counting Czisny, she's 10th on the alternates list, and she won't be bumped into the Top 5 with no guarantee to be picked until the sixth spot opens up. (Lacoste is three ahead of her on the list.)

Ziggy
06-29-2012, 06:58 AM
The preliminaries were a compromise - everyone gets to go to Worlds, participate in some way and has a chance to make it to the "main" competition. The federations of the skaters who participated in the preliminaries had to pay for their accommodation and meals.

Many of you probably don't know that in many other sports all participants (or their federations) pay for their own expenses. Or, in some sports, only the top athletes from the world standings are invited and everybody else pays. Anyway, the "smaller" federations, naturally more concerned by the preliminaries (although CAN, RUS, FRA etc also had skaters in the preliminaries at Euros and Worlds or Junior Worlds, even Plushenko skated in the preliminaries) apparently didn't like the idea of paying something themselves, no matter how good or weak their skater is. So what they get now is just the logical reaction of the ISU. The ISU understandably didn't want to get back to the nine-hours Ladies Short Programs at Worlds.

I understand all that.

But couldn't ISU force through making the federations pay their own expenses instead of barring the entry to Worlds to the vast majority of skaters? :(

Well, I guess there would be no need for that if the federations themselves didn't vote to scrap the preliminaries...

I guess at the next congress, we might get the federations voting to pay their own expenses in exchange for scrapping the huge minimum scores.

It has to be said though, some federations have budgets so small that they can hardly cover the air fares if an ISU Championship is at the other side of the world. When you add all other costs on top, sending skaters to the major events might become really difficult for them. :(

seabm7
06-29-2012, 07:53 AM
But Yuna wasn't the first Korean skater to compete at Worlds or even the Olympics. Yuna has been in the making ever since the first Korean skater competed at Worlds. The experience and expertise gained through that by the Korean federation undoubtedly benefited Yuna



I agree. It was Korean coaches who helped Yuna to learn all the basics including triple jumps up to Lutz. These coaches were former athletes representing Korea at Worlds and Olympics.

Hanna
06-29-2012, 08:09 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think it is almost offensive that there is no requirement for PCS at all. I know there is a lot more "swing" in that mark, but that is like the ISU is saying that components are a completely unimportant part of skating.

This. :( Hopefully it's not going to result in boring programs where all the focus is reaching the required TES and choreography and interpretation is lacking. I'd also hate to see a decrease in basic skating skills.


The Australian skaters are screwed: their Federation is weak and has no money, and there's nothing close by.


The situation sucks unbelievably much. :(

allezfred
06-29-2012, 09:44 AM
The point is that you stay at the international competition level until you're strong qualify for Euros/4C's, and then when you're strong enough, you qualify for Worlds. (I'm talking about smaller federations where there aren't many strong skaters, and it was an instant entry to the qualis at championships. The Olympics are a different story.)

All the skaters who competed at Worlds in March were deemed to be strong enough then. And now they are being told they are not. They are being told they have to chase a certain numbers of points this season and if too many of them get it then the total will be arbitrarily raised midway through the season. I do not know of any other sport that works that way.

The other problematic issue is that Worlds next year is the main de facto Olympic qualifier. Again I do not know of any other sports where federations are effectively shut out of taking part in the main Olympic qualifying competitions.

kwanfan1818
06-29-2012, 09:56 AM
Only 18 singles skaters qualify for the Olympics through Worlds. They vast majority, if not all of the skaters who would qualify spots for their country, are the ones who should not have an issue earning a minimum score.

There are no minimums for Senior B's, and the Olympic qualifier is a Senior B. It's likely that there will be a minimum score requirement for the Olympics, but I don't think even the Worlds minimums are harder to attain than some of the NOC requirements,and the Euros/4C's minimums aren't.

As far as telling skaters that suddenly they're not good enough for Worlds, that's nothing new: there were skaters who were told that when the first minimum score requirements were added two years ago.

allezfred
06-29-2012, 10:51 AM
Only 18 singles skaters qualify for the Olympics through Worlds. They vast majority, if not all of the skaters who would qualify spots for their country, are the ones who should not have an issue earning a minimum score.

Isn't it 24 for singles, 19 for dance and 16 for pairs? :confused:


There are no minimums for Senior B's, and the Olympic qualifier is a Senior B. It's likely that there will be a minimum score requirement for the Olympics, but I don't think even the Worlds minimums are harder to attain than some of the NOC requirements,and the Euros/4C's minimums aren't.

As far as telling skaters that suddenly they're not good enough for Worlds, that's nothing new: there were skaters who were told that when the first minimum score requirements were added two years ago.

There is a huge difference between the minimum score that was set two years ago and the new one for Worlds. It is going to have a devastating effect on the elite skating programmes of developing figure skating nations.

haribobo
06-29-2012, 11:51 AM
I dunno. I would think its kind of devastating to go all the way to worlds just to get cut after prelims. This way, skaters are saved from this fate. It is tough, but sport is tough. I think it will be ok. Hopefully it encourages big countries to send a greater variety of skaters to senior B comps in the interest of having more meet the minimum score. And it would have been interesting to see Kaetlyn Osmond skate at Worlds. If the National champ can't earn that minimum score but someone else from her country can, maybe that someone else was the better choice all along... :slinkaway

I don't think we'll see the minimum score raised halfway through the season unless there's dozens more skaters reaching it than spots in the FS at Worlds.

TAHbKA
06-29-2012, 12:16 PM
Going to be the minority here, but thank you, ISU. Not having any patriotic or personal feelings towards the skaters from the small countries I'm bored ouf ot my skin watching the skaters' desperate attempts to land a 2T and failing. If I only get to see Russian/Japanese/USA/Canadian skaters with an occasional Spanish/French/German/whatever - fine. But at least I don't get to sit through 50 ladies SPs wondering whether I'm a masochist or something wrong with the rules.

allezfred
06-29-2012, 12:19 PM
I would think its kind of devastating to go all the way to worlds just to get cut after prelims.

It is far worse not to have the chance to go to Worlds in the first place.

Skaters from different countries have different expectations from a World Championships. A lot of Americans felt Alissa Czisny's performance at Worlds was a disaster whereas Clara Peters qualifying for the SP was a major achievement for Irish figure skating and a news story that peaked interest in the story here. With probably no skater at Worlds next year we're not going to have that kind of exposure for the sport.

allezfred
06-29-2012, 12:25 PM
If I only get to see Russian/Japanese/USA/Canadian skaters with an occasional Spanish/French/German/whatever - fine.

Perhaps you should avoid Worlds then and just watch the GPF. ;)

elfenblüte
06-29-2012, 12:46 PM
Going to be the minority here, but thank you, ISU. Not having any patriotic or personal feelings towards the skaters from the small countries I'm bored ouf ot my skin watching the skaters' desperate attempts to land a 2T and failing. If I only get to see Russian/Japanese/USA/Canadian skaters with an occasional Spanish/French/German/whatever - fine. But at least I don't get to sit through 50 ladies SPs wondering whether I'm a masochist or something wrong with the rules.

Unfortunately you are not in the minority, at least on this forum. But it shows how bad it is to this sport, when even the "Fans" want to ban the skaters from competing, and these comments gives the ISU even more support for there damaging rules and ideas. Its just sad.

If i would be a skater from a small federation, i would have no motivation to continue, because its just impossible to make this high minimum score, and its not the same to compete at a senior B, which nobody wants to watch, or even at Euros/4CC. The World Championships are completely different.