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View Full Version : Minimum Total Technical Scores for 2012-13 ISU Championships (including Jr Worlds)



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hanca
08-06-2012, 07:38 PM
gkelly, I think you are missing the point. For the skating championship to take place, the organisers needs to ensure that they sell the tickets and TV rights. I understand what you are saying that "Lots of sports that aren't spectator-friendly have world championships", but I don't believe that it would happen in skating if people didn't want to watch it. It would be too expensive to have Worlds, at least in the form it is now (= organisers paying hotels and travel for the skaters). It would be far too expensive. It is expensive even with tickets being sold out, so imagine how expensive it would be without this income. No matter if you like it or not, having championships is dependent on audience.

Alternatively, they would have to completely change the format of the competition, for example the participants would pay all their expenses, but then you are going to achieve that skaters from poorer countries may not be able to afford to attend. So there won't be a barrier based on skater's skills, but barrier based on their purse. Not sure if that will be any better, because mostly the same skaters would be left out.

hanca
08-06-2012, 07:41 PM
Using Euros/4Cs as qualifiers or adding a separate Worlds qualifier competition at least a week before in another location are other ways to do it.



Skaters from Europe would be seriously disadvantaged. Have you ever noticed how generously they score at 4CC in comparison with Europeans? You can't compare results from two competition, especially not from those two competition.

gkelly
08-06-2012, 07:58 PM
Alternatively, they would have to completely change the format of the competition, for example the participants would pay all their expenses, but then you are going to achieve that skaters from poorer countries may not be able to afford to attend. So there won't be a barrier based on skater's skills, but barrier based on their purse. Not sure if that will be any better, because mostly the same skaters would be left out.

Yes, that part is true.

If there were suddenly zero spectators and zero broadcast rights sales for any figure skating competition, then the skaters would have to pay to hold a championships.

If the ISU canceled all figure skating championships and refused to host one, then the ISU would no longer be serving the function that it has served since 1896. The figure skaters and federations who want to have a championship and can afford to host one would leave the organization that had ceased to organize and would start a new organization at their own expense.

There would be world championships. Skaters and federations without financial resources would not be able to afford to participate.

The new organization would probably try to sell tickets and broadcast rights. They might do better or worse than the ISU does now.

They might change the format in some ways to make it easier to attract those income sources.

But either way, whoever is in charge, world championships would be the last thing to go. Junior internationals including Jr. Worlds, and maybe Four Continents, would be canceled before Worlds would be discontinued.

Nonchampionships international events hosted by federations might continue depending on which hosts can still afford to do so without money coming in from outside the skating world. They would have to charge entry fees to the participants.

hanca
08-06-2012, 09:18 PM
Yes, that part is true.

If there were suddenly zero spectators and zero broadcast rights sales for any figure skating competition, then the skaters would have to pay to hold a championships.

If the ISU canceled all figure skating championships and refused to host one, then the ISU would no longer be serving the function that it has served since 1896. The figure skaters and federations who want to have a championship and can afford to host one would leave the organization that had ceased to organize and would start a new organization at their own expense.

There would be world championships. Skaters and federations without financial resources would not be able to afford to participate.

The new organization would probably try to sell tickets and broadcast rights. They might do better or worse than the ISU does now.

They might change the format in some ways to make it easier to attract those income sources.

But either way, whoever is in charge, world championships would be the last thing to go. Junior internationals including Jr. Worlds, and maybe Four Continents, would be canceled before Worlds would be discontinued.

Nonchampionships international events hosted by federations might continue depending on which hosts can still afford to do so without money coming in from outside the skating world. They would have to charge entry fees to the participants.

ISU wouldn't need to cancel all figure skating championships or refuse to host one. If there were suddenly zero spectators and zero broadcast rights sales, it may be too expensive for most countries to volunteer to have the championships. I think ISU would soon run out of countries willing to host it, and then it would slowly die out. What happens if no country comes forward? Can ISU order someone to host it?


And you are assuming that there would be a new organisation, "The new organization would probably try to sell tickets and broadcast rights. " You forgot that in our scenario, there are no people willing to watch skating, so even if there was a new organisation, this organization would not be able to sell the tickets and sell the TV rights, so we are at the same starting point - no country willing to host it because the richer countries would host one or two, but the poorer countries wouldn't be able to afford it and sooner or later you would run out of those countries who can host it.

And if they charge entry fee, it will be even less skaters who can attend the championships, because those skaters will be paying travelling fee, hotel expenses, entry fee, in top of their coaches fees and training expenses...

Vagabond
08-06-2012, 10:33 PM
What happens if no country comes forward? Can ISU order someone to host it?

Never fear. The ISU will just stage Worlds on a frozen pond near Lausanne. :cold:

What it would look like (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-vqyLXiYLk&feature=player_detailpage)

Susan M
08-07-2012, 04:47 PM
Amateur means that the skaters are not paid (although they can win price money).

Actually, in the days of true Olympic amateurism, the athlete was not allowed to accept any money, even prize money, nor anything else of value to be an amateur. The term amateur no longer has any relevance in figure skating. Plushenko and Kwan were allowed to make piles of money while still competing in ISU events. The only distinction now is "eligible" and "ineligible" and the only real money difference is whether the events where you earned your money were ISU sanctioned/ federation approved.

Still, there is an issue here in that skaters with some international success can earn enough to support themselves while skaters not good enough to earn much prize money or get paid for shows and exhibitions need other jobs and/or support from federations, sponsors and their families.

I'm not sure the ISU gives those folks much thought in deciding how to run things.


Since the ISU also governs speedskating, that may be the best comparison. What kinds of ticket sales and broadcast contracts do speedskating championships attract?

I think the ISU does pretty well selling TV rights to speed skating in Europe. I don't know about the rest of the world but, historically, interest from US TV networks has always been pretty low. Back when FS broadcast rights were valuable in the US, the ISU used to bundle figure and speed skating so that the network who wanted figure skating had to buy both. Then the ISU gave a big chunk of what was really FS revenue to the speed skating side.

BTW, there are also qualifying standards for speed skating worlds, if that's any consolation.


For the skating championship to take place, the organisers needs to ensure that they sell the tickets and TV rights. I understand what you are saying that "Lots of sports that aren't spectator-friendly have world championships", but I don't believe that it would happen in skating if people didn't want to watch it.

I can't think of any Olympic movement sport that does not hold World Championships. * The ones who do not have a big enough following for the championships to pay for themselves thru TV and ticket sales find other ways to pay for them, like corporate sponsorships. The event would have to be very different, though, with a much smaller budget. For starters, they would probably be in smaller cities with smaller (cheaper to rent) arenas. They may even have to cut back on the VIP lounges and luxury hotel suites for Speedy and his cronies.

* Edited to add - I've been pondering this question all afternoon and did think of one. Tennis doesn't have a world championship, but it isn't because they couldn't afford one. They already have plenty of other big events. Is baseball still in the Olympics? I'm not sure if they have one either.

Sylvia
12-18-2012, 01:18 AM
Posted on the ISU site today:

17 December 2012

Further to ISU Communication No. 1742, item 7, ISU Communication 1767, item 7 and internal consultations among all competent ISU bodies, it is herewith confirmed that the Minimum Total Technical Scores for the ISU European Figure Skating Championships 2013 remain as stated in ISU Communication No. 1742, item 7, namely:

MEN SP 25,00 FS 45,00
LADIES SP 20,00 FS 36,00
PAIR SKATING SP 20,00 FS 36,00
ICE DANCE SD 18,00 FD 28,00

(SP = Short Program SD = Short Dance FS = Free Skating FD = Free Dance)

For the subsequent ISU Championships (ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships, ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships and ISU World Figure Skating Championships) the same evaluation is being made and the conclusions will be communicated in due time, namely 2 weeks before the entry deadline of each 2013 Championships.

ioana
12-18-2012, 03:09 AM
I've been pondering this question all afternoon and did think of one. Tennis doesn't have a world championship, but it isn't because they couldn't afford one. They already have plenty of other big events. Is baseball still in the Olympics? I'm not sure if they have one either.

Baseball is not an Olympic sport any more, but they have a World Cup, every 2 years. Also, soccer (arguably not taken very seriously as an Olympic sport with the age rules they have in place) only has a World Cup every 4 years, but plenty of qualifiers and other Regional championships in between.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_World_Cup

allezfred
12-18-2012, 04:06 PM
It will be interesting to see if the ISU sticks with the same minimum scores for 4CC as for Euros.

SamuraiK
12-18-2012, 06:43 PM
It will be interesting to see if the ISU sticks with the same minimum scores for 4CC as for Euros.

4CC and Euros are actually fair enough numbers. If a skater can't reach those TES, then they really dont deserve to be in an ISU championship IMO, so I dont think they will be changed.

Worlds is another story, so far we have a prospect of less than 24 entries in the Ladies field :S

Marco
12-18-2012, 07:01 PM
Worlds is another story, so far we have a prospect of less than 24 entries in the Ladies field :S

Perhaps with the minimum score in place, we can get rid of the per country rule? :D

allezfred
12-19-2012, 12:23 AM
4CC and Euros are actually fair enough numbers.

It'll certainly make for a shorter competition at 4CC. :shuffle:

Sylvia
12-19-2012, 12:35 AM
Ami Parekh (IND) reached the 4CC SP minimum at Golden Spin of Zagreb this past weekend (she had already achieved the FS minimum at Challenge Cup in March 2012).

kwanfan1818
12-19-2012, 12:53 AM
Parekh barely missed the Euros/4C's FS minimum at Golden Spin by .05, so it shows her earlier result was not a fluke.

SamuraiK
12-19-2012, 01:08 AM
It'll certainly make for a shorter competition at 4CC. :shuffle:

Well so far the potential men entries for 4CC is around 25 , as much as we usually see there and for ladies is 22 ,which is lower but at least means the end of the suburbian novice-level skaters representing their great granpas countries.