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allezfred
07-30-2012, 12:42 PM
The ISU do have the option to change the minimum scores during the season so it's going to be a moving goalpost.

DORISPULASKI
07-30-2012, 02:28 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, let us pray:

May the ISU have the sense to change this minimum TES rule to something more achievable.

Lord, I realize that this may be a very difficult request, since it first requires the ISU to be infused with a minimum of sense, something they have none of.

Amen.

l'etoile
07-30-2012, 05:38 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, let us pray:

May the ISU have the sense to change this minimum TES rule to something more achievable.

Lord, I realize that this may be a very difficult request, since it first requires the ISU to be infused with a minimum of sense, something they have none of.

Amen.

Ay-MEN!

MissIzzy
07-31-2012, 02:30 AM
I think there's nothing wrong with the mininum tech score, the only problem is that they picked really high scores.

In fact, from their reaction on Twitter, the skaters don't necessarily object to the Euros/4CC scores. It's the high Worlds score that's the problem.
Though I do think if Worlds approaches with only twelve entries qualified in any discipline, the ISU will give in an lower that minimum. They're idiots, not insane.

SkaterMate
07-31-2012, 06:05 AM
In dance, 23 teams already have the minimum score.
Of these 23 teams only 19 would be eligible for worlds, due to the country allocation limits. (eg. Russia has 5 teams with the minimum score, but only 3 places in worlds 2013)

This minimum score has created an odd scenario, the following countries made the top 25 in worlds 2012, but don't have a team eligible for worlds 2013


China (12)!!
Japan (24),
Spain (19),
Azerbaijan (17),
Australia (20),

Yet, the following country didn't make the top 25, but has a team elligible


Finland (28)


Since 20 teams would be enough to hold the dance competition, I can't imagine this score being lowered, more likely it will be raised when many teams get inflated marks at B internationals, especially towards the end of the season. I can imagine the politics flying at these B internationals now, as the smaller Féderations try to get their teams into worlds.

ICE DANCE

Canada
1 Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE
2 Nicole ORFORD / Thomas WILLIAMS
3 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR

Finland
4 Olesia KARMI / Max LINDHOLM

France
5 Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT
6 Tiffany ZAHORSKI / Alexis MIART

United Kingdom
7 Penny COOMES / Nicholas BUCKLAND

Germany
8 Nelli ZHIGANSHINA / Alexander GAZSI
TANJA KOLBE / STEFANO CARUSO

Hungary
9 Zsuzsanna NAGY / Mate FEJES

Italy
10 Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE
Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI
11 Lorenza ALESSANDRINI / Simone VATURI

Lithuania
12 Isabella TOBIAS / Deividas STAGNIUNAS

Russia
13 Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV
Ekaterina PUSHKASH / Jonathan GUERREIRO
Ekaterina RIAZANOVA / Ilia TKACHENKO
14 Elena ILINYKH / Nikita KATSALAPOV
15 Victoria SINITSINA / Ruslan ZHIGANSHIN

Ukraine
16 Siobhan HEEKIN-CANEDY / Dmitriy DUN

USA
17 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
18 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI
19 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE

Vagabond
07-31-2012, 06:21 AM
Finland
4 Olesia KARMI / Max LINDHOLM

I'm not going to fact-check your entire post, but this one jumped out when I went down the list.

According to their ISU page (http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00012522.htm), their ISU Personal Best in the Short Dance is 36.94 from a Junior Grand Prix event in 2010. Their TES in the Short Dance there was 20.33 (http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpgbr2010/SEG007.HTM), far below the required 29.00. More recently, they received a TES of 23.40 for their Short Dance at the 2012 Bavarian Open (http://eiskunstlauf.bev-eissport.de/BO2012/SEG007.HTM). As a Senior "B," that later score would count if it were high enough, but it isn't.

Are you sure you applied the proper criteria (which are mentioned at the top of the thread)?

And a few words of advice to all of you who care about the World Championships: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--hMJPUBwMc :scream:

SkaterMate
07-31-2012, 06:59 AM
I'm not going to fact-check your entire post, but this one jumped out when I went down the list.

Are you sure you applied the proper criteria (which are mentioned at the top of the thread)?



Yes, I was very, very thorough, mainly thanks to this wonderful Japanese site
http://deep-edge.net/wsd.php?id=12522

You will find they got the score at the Palva Romana memorial in Olomouc-

http://krasoolomouc.websnadno.cz/zavod/index.htm

.. which is what I was referring to when I mentioned jumped up marks in the later B internationals!! Just look how many got the minimum tech scores in this comp, no politiks here lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the top 6 got the FD minimum, and 3 teams got the SD minimum. It looks like the SD is going to be the hardest to get, as couples such as France's Jones/Caronn failed to get the minimum all season, despite finishing 7th in Europeans.

Ziggy
07-31-2012, 08:55 AM
What SkaterMate posted shows another problem.

Calling and judging at B-Internationals is often much less strict, as the Pavel Roman Memorial results prove.

Whilst I am not going to complain about it, if it gives skaters a chance to earn the scores, it's unfair when the playing field is not level and it's a case of being lucky with the calling and judging team.


I don't know of many other sports where the hosts are expected to pay for accommodation/meal expenses of competitors. Let's get real - figure skating is an elitist and expensive sport. If you're not able to pay for a hotel bill for a few days, then that is the least of your worries.

Fair enough.

And this solution would be much better than simply excluding "not good enough" skaters from participation entirely.


The ISU do have the option to change the minimum scores during the season so it's going to be a moving goalpost.

Yeah, I keep hoping that setting the scores that high was a way of terrifying the federations into accepting that they need to either pay their share or accept preliminary rounds and that ISU is going to lower the scores whilst preparing those changes for next congress.

SamuraiK
07-31-2012, 07:46 PM
Im getting ready for all those Chanflation Scores that will be
given at Nebelhorn, Golden Spin or Merano Cup :lol:

l'etoile
07-31-2012, 07:58 PM
Here's a thought, maybe ISU has decided to give "even" more generous GOEs so skaters could get to that minimum TES scores.

Ziggy
07-31-2012, 08:03 PM
Here's a thought, maybe ISU has decided to give "even" more generous GOEs so skaters could get to that minimum TES scores.

Well maybe the ISU didn't but the judges probably will now. :wall:

hanca
08-02-2012, 08:19 PM
As a competitive skater myself trying to earn the only spot for my country for worlds, it saddens me that some of you are unhappy to have some of the smaller countries compete at Worlds. I train as hard as I can, with no funding from my federation or outside help, I have to work full time to fund my skating and have sacrificed a lot in order to compete, but some of you would just prefer to see the top elite skaters? That's what the Grand prix circuit is about, Worlds should be open to anyone who is Eligible to compete there. Look at Tomas Verner, he used to not even qualify for the Long Program at Europeans to suddenly being able to win them, the same with Stephane Lambiel, skating at worlds should not be a priviledge afforded to the same top billing countries, if that's what they want they should adapt the world team trophy, not restrict worlds.

......

I don't want to go to worlds to win, I want to go to be able to say that I was there. To be able to say that all the blood, sweat, tears and sacrifices I've made throughout my career was worth it. From some of your comments, I can tell that a lot of you have never been skaters, which is fine, I understand that this is a fan's forum, but look at it from our point of view. We spend the majority of our lives waking up at ridiculous times in the morning, sacrificing simple things that other people take for granted like a social life, like relationships etc, or the damage we do to our body in the long run and the injuries we sustain to achieve our goals and dreams. Why should a group of people in a room stop us from going to the World Championships to represent our countries because we can't attain a ridiculously high technical score?

....



As I see it, (and I am really sorry that you will not like it), this is a competition. This should be for the best in the world. I do understand how much it means for you to represent your country at Worlds, and I do appreciate how much effort you have put in it. Saying that, I would still rather watch only 6 US skaters, 6 Japanese skaters and 6 Russian skaters (that's just an example) if they were the best in the world, rather than watching 1-3 from each country when some of the skaters sometimes clearly don't have the ability (yet) to land the jumps/do the difficult spins/don't have the presentation etc. I know that some people believe that sport should be 'inclusive' and prefer watching 1-3 skaters from each country rather than the best in the world, but other people (myself included) would prefer seeing the boundaries of the sport pushed to maximum. And the way to do it is in my view allow the best of the best compete against each other without looking at their country of origin. I think it is wrong if some athletes consider the nationals in their country more difficult than World championship. That should not happen.

Also, you wrote about the effort you made, tears, blood and sweat; I am really sorry that the skating conditions in the UK are not better and that there is not much support from NISA, but other skaters from the poorer countries made it too. You mentioned Verner - I am pretty sure that he was not funded by his skating federation either until he started having results. The conditions in the Czech Republic are actually much worse than in the UK (and I know that for sure. Most rinks close over the summer, and ice hockey always gets priority on the ice at most rinks). It is definitely harder than if you lived in the USA, Canada, or Russia, but this is sport. Unfortunately, sport doesn't reward the effort. It rewards the performance, the results. It is not about how hard you tried, but whether you delivered. I know it is harsh.

vexlak
08-02-2012, 08:44 PM
We are writing about world championship. If the sport would like to survive, it has to open the doors not slamming it shut. It's the ratings that matters. I am not sure what ISU had in mind, but if this is only resolution to the qualification rounds elimination, than its purely though trough.
:wall:

kwanfan1818
08-02-2012, 08:53 PM
As I see it, (and I am really sorry that you will not like it), this is a competition. This should be for the best in the world. I do understand how much it means for you to represent your country at Worlds, and I do appreciate how much effort you have put in it. Saying that, I would still rather watch only 6 US skaters, 6 Japanese skaters and 6 Russian skaters (that's just an example) if they were the best in the world, rather than watching 1-3 from each country when some of the skaters sometimes clearly don't have the ability (yet) to land the jumps/do the difficult spins/don't have the presentation etc. I know that some people believe that sport should be 'inclusive' and prefer watching 1-3 skaters from each country rather than the best in the world, but other people (myself included) would prefer seeing the boundaries of the sport pushed to maximum. And the way to do it is in my view allow the best of the best compete against each other without looking at their country of origin.
That may be the way to go, but the current cost-slashing solution is to have neither all of the best in the world regardless of country nor much inclusion.

Susan M
08-02-2012, 09:50 PM
I think there's nothing wrong with the minimum tech score, the only problem is that they picked really high scores.

I think we need to look at those minimums with an eye on the wording about moving the standard up or down as needed to yield the desired number of entrants. Looking at Worlds, for example, there are 30 slots for the ladies singles. If fewer than 30 have met the standard, I read the ISU communication as saying they will lower it to allow the next highest scores in. Conversely, if too many skaters meet the qualifying minimums, the ISU raises the number, so the qualifiers drop out starting with the lowest qualifying score. Think what a mess that would be. A skater goes along all season thinking they have a qualifying score only to learn a couple weeks before the event that the standard has been raised. My guess is they set the standards so high in the first place to make sure this last scenario does not happen.