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ali_dorate
06-27-2012, 03:04 AM
Shizuka is a typical late bloomer.
Although she had been called "a gifted girl" when she was a novice, she could not deliver an eye-catching performance in international competitions after her senior debut.

But when you see the competitive results of the last three years of her career as an amateur athlete, she got;
1 Gold at Olympics
1 Gold at World Championships
1 Silver at GPF
1 Bronze at GPF.

This is a great accomplishment.
Her winning at 2006 Winter Olympics was not only the first gold medal in Asian countries in figure skating history, but was a only "one" Gold medal that entire Japanese national Olympic team could get at 2006 Olympics, and that happed at the last moment of that Olympic period! You can't imagine how deeply Japanese people were moved and exited.

I call the skater who can deliver the performance when it really counts a strong skater. Shizuka is definitely one of the strongest skaters.

smarts1
06-27-2012, 03:12 AM
^ Yeah, unfortunately, Shizuka wasn't consistent enough to deliver those performances when it always counted. She screwed up at Worlds more than half the time she was there and placed abysmally in Nagano and 1998 Worlds and had a dry spell on the World scene for nearly 4 years after that.

Shiz has some nice aspects to her skating, but IMO it is her time to go.

victoriaheidi
06-27-2012, 04:18 AM
Shizuka's going to go, huh? :(

I voted Mao.

Marco
06-27-2012, 08:39 AM
I don't know if Lu Chen was robbed, but IMO, Oksana Baiul didn't deserve any of her titles ! :saint:

EYS.

antmanb
06-27-2012, 12:42 PM
well don't know which competition you have watched, but the once i have rewatched at least a hundred times they certainly looked beautifully attempted and landed! and her getting credit for it and positive goe also shows that the technical judge thinks and sees the same as i do!

Worlds 2012 (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2012/WC2012_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf) the 3S was under-rotated and got negative GOE, no 3T attempted.

Worlds 2011 (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf) Popped the salchow to a 1S and had the 3T downgraded (<<).

Worlds 2010 (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2010/wc10_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf) She landed the 3T with positive GOE but did not attempt a salchow.

2010 Olympics (http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/owg10_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf) popped the toe-loop to a 1T and did not attempt a salchow.

I don't think she included a salchow for at least a couple of seasons prior to the Olympics so i'm just not seeing salchow and toe-loop as being these wonderful jumps that Mao did/does.

sk8ingcoach
06-27-2012, 12:58 PM
Cmon people... Vote for Chen Lu. Shizuka deserves to be ahead of her

Amy03
06-27-2012, 01:34 PM
Worlds 2012 (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2012/WC2012_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf) the 3S was under-rotated and got negative GOE, no 3T attempted.

Worlds 2011 (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf) Popped the salchow to a 1S and had the 3T downgraded (<<).

Worlds 2010 (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2010/wc10_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf) She landed the 3T with positive GOE but did not attempt a salchow.

2010 Olympics (http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/owg10_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf) popped the toe-loop to a 1T and did not attempt a salchow.

I don't think she included a salchow for at least a couple of seasons prior to the Olympics so i'm just not seeing salchow and toe-loop as being these wonderful jumps that Mao did/does.

i really am disgusted by how you take 2012 worlds as eksemple cause that performance was a not how mao has been performing during the whole season... and the same goes for your eksempel from the olympics 2010, after that performance Mao herself said that, she was shocked to make a mistake on the toe cause it's usuelly a very easy jump for her(her foot got stuck in the ice if you watch it in slowmo). and in the 2010 worlds Mao didn't put a salcow in her jump arsenal because she was already doing TWO 3A so no space for the salcow... the year after(2011) when she removed one 3A she suddenly got space for other tripple and the she put back the salcow and lutz.. and the toe has always been in mao's jump arsenal, and she is even doing it in combination 2A-3T in her free, and that combo she has been doing for two seasons now! and as a single 3T she has always had it in her free! so yes she had been doing and still does all kind of jumps, that was her whole intention with her new jump layout from the beginning!

RumbleFish
06-27-2012, 03:48 PM
i really am disgusted by how you take 2012 worlds as eksemple cause that performance was a not how mao has been performing during the whole season... and the same goes for your eksempel from the olympics 2010, after that performance Mao herself said that, she was shocked to make a mistake on the toe cause it's usuelly a very easy jump for her(her foot got stuck in the ice if you watch it in slowmo). and in the 2010 worlds Mao didn't put a salcow in her jump arsenal because she was already doing TWO 3A so no space for the salcow... the year after(2011) when she removed one 3A she suddenly got space for other tripple and the she put back the salcow and lutz.. and the toe has always been in mao's jump arsenal, and she is even doing it in combination 2A-3T in her free, and that combo she has been doing for two seasons now! and as a single 3T she has always had it in her free! so yes she had been doing and still does all kind of jumps, that was her whole intention with her new jump layout from the beginning!

It sure sounds like Miss Asada having trouble landing 3S and 3T, regardless what you are trying to say.

This is just another reason why she should be voted out.
All the ladies, even ones that got voted out, had no problem landing 3T and 3S except Miss Asada.

RD
06-27-2012, 03:59 PM
Cmon people... Vote for Chen Lu. Shizuka deserves to be ahead of her

And Lipinski deserved to be ahead of both :shuffle:

UGG
06-27-2012, 05:35 PM
Yeah I really don't get the reason for Lipinski getting the boot before Mao, Lulu, and Shiz. But I guess its in the past!

judgejudy27
06-27-2012, 06:21 PM
I do agree with Tara going before Mao. Mao was just as precocious and probably would have duplicated Tara's feat as a 15 year old World and Olympic Champion in 2010 if the age rule Tara didnt have to deal with allowed it. Mao at the same age was a more elegant and artistic skater, and she had some triple-triples up her sleeve (a triple lutz-triple loop for instance) too plus the triple axel. Mao at 14-15 went a combined 5-1 vs Arakawa, Slutskaya, Cohen, the top 3 skaters in the World besides herself at the time. Tara at 14-15 went a combined 7-5 vs Kwan and a badly slumping Slutskaya. Mao overall had a longer career with more achievements, Tara didnt even win a regular grand prix event remember. IMO Mao > Tara >>> Chen and Arakawa.

Vash01
06-27-2012, 08:38 PM
Yeah I really don't get the reason for Lipinski getting the boot before Mao, Lulu, and Shiz. But I guess its in the past!

ITA. Tara should have been around a lot longer, and I am not even her fan (though I did like her).

FunnyBut
06-27-2012, 08:51 PM
I agree Mao had the worst timing. She was barely too young for the Torino Olympics, and she had a decent chance of beating Shizuka, Sasha and Irina's performances there. She also would have gone in with much less pressure than Sasha and Irina, knowing she likely have at least one more Olympics given her age.

Moreover, she grew up at a time when the 3Axel was king, the flutz as well as somewhat under-rotated 3-3 were largely forgiven. By the time she was competing Senior Worlds 3A was just another triple, and there was great scrutiny on the flutz and underrotations. Not that these are unfair requirments, but they were changes that greatly benefited her biggest rival, YuNa, and they were instigated after Mao became a Senior. Kwan had already won a pile of medals before COP changed the rules on her. Trenary sneaked in a WGM before figures were taken away and her competitors' triples arsenal overwhelmed her. Mao spent almost her entire senior career with the rules changed against her strengths.

judgejudy27
06-27-2012, 08:59 PM
Although she was never going to be a dominant or legendary champion, I think Trenary is another one who had bad timing. She came in during the figures wait your turn era and had to wait for Witt, Thomas, and Manley to retire to have a real chance, had to compete with the greatest jumper ever Midori Ito when figures were being phased out, and had figures being phased out when she had good jump content for the figures era but was now having to compete with American girls like Yamaguchi, Harding, even Kerrigan who had a full set of triple pretty much, and faced with the impossible task of learning several new triples late in her career. Then again her 1990 World title with a botched short program was lucky enough, so it evens out I guess.

FunnyBut
06-27-2012, 09:59 PM
Although she was never going to be a dominant or legendary champion, I think Trenary is another one who had bad timing. She came in during the figures wait your turn era and had to wait for Witt, Thomas, and Manley to retire to have a real chance, had to compete with the greatest jumper ever Midori Ito when figures were being phased out, and had figures being phased out when she had good jump content for the figures era but was now having to compete with American girls like Yamaguchi, Harding, even Kerrigan who had a full set of triple pretty much, and faced with the impossible task of learning several new triples late in her career. Then again her 1990 World title with a botched short program was lucky enough, so it evens out I guess.

Hmm, I think you could look at Trenary either way. I kinda thought she couldn't win under either the old rules (not so great at figures) or the new ones (not so prolific with triples).:lol: But I agree she got caught in the middle of a big shift, and probably would have fared better had the rules never changed.

I think after this game is over, we'll need Ladies' Survivor, The PRE-quel! :lol: That is, the previous 12 greatest World/Olympic champions, ending with the 1994 WGM, Yuka Sato. Witt! Thomas! Sumners! Baiul! Yamaguichi! Ito!:watch: