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Triple Butz
06-29-2012, 04:18 PM
The video you gave for her stroking shows exactly how efortless it is for her to gain speed. Those moves of arms don't mean that it was difficult for her to her crossovers.
When I see such a fast spin which doesn't lose ANY speed even when she goes into a difficult position to me it looks definitely efortless. You gave the example when she was travelling on purpose to show what you wanted to show but that doesn't mean all her spins travelled. I can give you plenty of examples when she is perfectly centered with big speed and all the difficulty.



Effortlessness means that your body appears relaxed and at ease, not bobbing back and forth with your back parallel to the boards on the low end, and your arms dancing around at awkward angles. That shows that the body was hard at work.

In her famous combination spin, she has a very awkward upright turn on the change of foot where her body looks out of control and her leg is bent and without line. In attaining the biellman positions, she hits several awkward in-between positions that look strained and forced. There are many other skaters who can grab their legs more effortlessly, without losing control of their body line. There are probably better examples of her combination spin, but I would say, more often than not, it usually had a fair degree of traveling.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the difficulty in Irina's spins and her speed over the ice, but I don't think for a minute that she ever made them look easy.

judgejudy27
06-29-2012, 04:20 PM
At 2001 Worlds and 2002 Olympics she thought she should've won. I agree with her on Salt Lake City. Had she been correctly placed first after the short she would've won.

That still doesnt justify a hissy fit. I am sure Kwan when watching a 3 triple Slutskaya beat her 6 triple program at the 2001/2002 Grand Prix final thought she should have won as well, but she smiled and accepted the rip off. I like Irina as a person overall and think she is a strong and interesting character, but her diva attitude in the early 2000s was a turn off, especialy when she often choked at major events and was legitimately outskated by the winner.

Triple Butz
06-29-2012, 04:22 PM
That still doesnt justify a hissy fit. I am sure Kwan when watching a 3 triple Slutskaya beat her 6 triple program at the 2001/2002 Grand Prix final thought she should have won as well, but she smiled and accepted the rip off. I like Irina as a person overall and think she is a strong and interesting character, but her diva attitude in the early 2000s was a turn off, especialy when she often choked at major events and was legitimately outskated by the winner.

There was also the fiasco at the Canadian Open that same year and Michelle simply said, "You can't win all the time...you know how that goes" and smiled.

I like Irina, too, and I appreciate all kinds of different personalities in ice skating, but she acted like a diva on more than one occasion FWIW.

judgejudy27
06-29-2012, 04:24 PM
There was also the fiasco at the Canadian Open that same year and Michelle simply said, "You can't win all the time...you know how that goes" and smiled.

I like Irina, too, and I appreciate all kinds of different personalities in ice skating, but she acted like a diva on more than one occasion FWIW.

Yeah Josee Chouinard fell on a triple lutz, completed 1 triple, and beat a clean 3 or 4 triple Michelle whose performance was lovely and very nice, even if not super original (Josee did a mime program which was more suited to the pro am rules maybe, but still didnt justify her winning with that skate). I amazed how classy Michelle is, I dont know if any other skater I can think of would be able to withstand such ripoffs like those couple occasions I mentioned. Even the 95 Worlds, while it wasnt a major ripoff, a very young skater usually would pop off more than they should after.

sk8ingcoach
06-29-2012, 04:26 PM
Supposedly, she also had a "major diva wobbly" when she lost the Olympic gold medal to 24-year-old (throwing her own medal into the trash).



No, but it stamps her as unsporting.

I liked the charming, young Slutskaya who could get excited like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrYraEX7g40&feature=player_detailpage#t=390s) when she earned a silver medal. The older Slutskaya who whinged about receiving an Olympic silver medal? Not so much.

I think she just really wanted the gold. After missing out in 2002, AND in 2006 when she could have easily won both, of course she is going to be pissed. She trained for 4 years between 02 and 06 so she could try and get the gold again, while also battling through a life threatening illness. And after all that training she ends up getting a worst result than in 02. Id be pisssssssssed

Vagabond
06-29-2012, 05:38 PM
I think she just really wanted the gold. After missing out in 2002, AND in 2006 when she could have easily won both, of course she is going to be pissed. She trained for 4 years between 02 and 06 so she could try and get the gold again, while also battling through a life threatening illness. And after all that training she ends up getting a worst result than in 02. Id be pisssssssssed

I'm curious, sk8ingcoach. Are you a skating coach, as your user name indicates? If so, do you teach your students that it's acceptable for them to (1) badmouth the judges, (2) badmouth other competitors, (3) bad mouth the audience (whether hamburger-eating or not), and (4) disrespect the competitive system by tossing awards in the trash? Irina Slutskaya has, apparently, done all of these things at one point or another in her career.

Mafke
06-29-2012, 06:02 PM
In 2006 olys Slutskaya behaved herself perfectly well in public. I'm sure it wasn't fun or easy but she did.

If she had a hissy fit backstage, well that's what backstage is for.

There's no reason to be judgemental about private locker room behavior (unless it's legally actionable of course).

Vagabond
06-29-2012, 06:25 PM
In 2006 olys Slutskaya behaved herself perfectly well in public. I'm sure it wasn't fun or easy but she did.

If she had a hissy fit backstage, well that's what backstage is for.

There's no reason to be judgemental about private locker room behavior (unless it's legally actionable of course).

No, that's not what backstage is for. That's what one's own home (or hotel room) is for. If you do it where people can witness it, it is in public.

And her derisive remarks about the judges in Salt Lake City, Sarah Hughes, and American audiences were all made to media outlets. That's as public as can be.

kwanatic
06-29-2012, 06:33 PM
For Irina, you could look at her face and tell exactly what she was feeling. I remember her stalking off after losing to Michelle in 2000 and 2001 and she was livid in SLC after Sarah won. I wouldn't expect her to skip around, picking flowers and singing a song after losing so I don't really fault her. It does come off a little diva-ish but not everyone can be a class act 100% of the time. It takes a very strong person to handle crushing defeat and still maintain their composure...

Triple Butz
06-29-2012, 06:43 PM
And her derisive remarks about the judges in Salt Lake City, Sarah Hughes, and American audiences were all made to media outlets. That's as public as can be.

To be fair, I thought the "hamburger" and "Sarah Hughes got fat" comments came from a Russian tabloid that's notorious for publishing false statements. Can anyone confirm?

Vagabond
06-29-2012, 07:09 PM
To be fair, I thought the "hamburger" and "Sarah Hughes got fat" comments came from a Russian tabloid that's notorious for publishing false statements. Can anyone confirm?

As best as I can recall, Slutskaya reportedly said (some time after the Olymics) something to the effect the effect that biased judges in Salt Lake City supported an undeserving winner. Maybe this too was originally reported in a Russian tabloid. I am not sure.

On the other hand, according to Sports Illustrated, her pubic behavior right after the marks went up wasn't very sporting:


After staring blankly up at the scoreboard, she stormed out of the kiss and cry area and stood in a corner while her coach tried to console her. But Slutskaya wanted none of it, brushing aside a curtain as she stomped back to the locker room.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2002/figure_skating/news/2002/02/21/slutskaya_sidebar_ap/

This doesn't make her the weakest link in my book. I won't be voting for her for another few rounds.

bartek
06-29-2012, 07:18 PM
As best as I can recall, Slutskaya reportedly said (some time after the Olymics) something to the effect the effect that biased judges in Salt Lake City supported an undeserving winner. Maybe this too was originally reported in a Russian tabloid. I am not sure.

On the other hand, according to Sports Illustrated, her pubic behavior right after the marks went up wasn't very sporting:



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2002/figure_skating/news/2002/02/21/slutskaya_sidebar_ap/

This doesn't make her the weakest link in my book. I won't be voting for her for another few rounds.

Well, that has nothing to do with what she did on the ice and this is poll is about that, isn't it?

And I absolutely understand her behaviour. After so many years of hard training being beaten by half a turn short of rotation triple-triples. She didn't want consoling from her coach? Well, Michelle turned down interviewers at 1997 Nationals.

Triple Butz
06-29-2012, 07:21 PM
Well, Michelle turned down interviewers at 1997 Nationals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GkLbzBQitg#t=11m35

:huh:


This doesn't make her the weakest link in my book. I won't be voting for her for another few rounds.

ITA. I haven't voted for her yet, and don't plan to until it gets down to the final three. Sportsmanship is important, but it's not one of the criteria I've used in my decisions for this poll series. She was an amazing competitor with many many medals under her belt.

Macassar88
06-29-2012, 07:22 PM
Well, that has nothing to do with what she did on the ice and this is poll is about that, isn't it?

And I absolutely understand her behaviour. After so many years of hard training being beaten by half a turn short of rotation triple-triples. She didn't want consoling from her coach? Well, Michelle turned down interviewers at 1997 Nationals.

You also forgot the quarter or half turn pre rotations
And th fact that the OGM winner didn do a double axel in either program since it was really a double salchow

But I don't think Irina is the weakest. Maybe after Mao and Shiz leave.

kwanatic
06-29-2012, 07:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GkLbzBQitg#t=11m35


My heart...:wideeyes::fragile:

That was tough to watch. I admire how she fessed up to what happened and took full responsibility for her performance. It would have been easy to try to deflect the blame to something else but she said it was all her.

That's why she's the definition of class...