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Maofan7
06-21-2012, 08:27 PM
Retrospective takes a look back at the 1964 Olympics.

The key facts are:-


The ladies competition was won comfortably by then 2 time and reigning world champion, Sjoukje Dijkstra. Dijkstra would then go on to retain her world title later in 1964 (winning it for a 3rd consecutive time), and then retired to tour with Holiday on Ice. She is the last ladies skater to win an Olympic gold medal, having won a silver or bronze medal at a previous Olympics (she won the silver medal at the 1960 Olympics, the gold having been won by Carol Heiss).

The bronze medal in the ladies competition was won by Canada's Petra Burka. She would go onto win the world title in 1965

One intriguing aspect about the ladies competition is the great 'what if', in terms of who would have won the gold medal had Laurence Owen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0114AudgYms) not been killed as a result of the crash of Sabena Flight 548 in 1961. One yardstick by which to gauge how things may have panned out is Wendy Griner. Owen had just beaten Griner into second place to win the 1961 North American Championships. Griner then went on to take the Silver medal at the 1962 World Championships, finishing second to Dijkstra. Hence, even as early as 1962, it would appear as though Owen would have been challenging Dijkstra for supremacy.

The pairs competition was won by the Protopopovs. They would retain their Olympic title at the 1968 Olympics, and win 4 consecutive world titles from 1965-68.

The pairs silver medal was won by Marika Kilius & Hans-Jürgen Bäumler, who had also won silver at the 1960 Olympics. However, in 1966, it was alleged that they had signed a professional contract prior to the 1964 Olympics. Consequently, they were stripped of their 1964 Olympic silver medals. Nevertheless, the charges against them were dropped by the IOC in 1987, and they were therefore given their silver medals back

The gold in the men's competition was won by Manfred Schnelldorfer. He was a surprise winner, as the favourite going into the competition had been Alain Calmat. However, Calmat was notoriously inconsistent, and he fell 3 times during his free program (Calmat would, nevertheless, go on to win the 1965 World title, before retiring). Schnelldorfer was also a pop star at the time. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFcJIOlzwUc) is one of his tunes from 1964.

The winner of the bronze in the men's competition was America's Scott Allen. This was an important medal for the United States, as it was their first Olympic medal following the 1961 air disaster. Allen was only 14 years old at the time, and he still holds the record as the youngest ever male skater to win an Olympic medal (unlikely to ever be beaten given that the current age restrictions are likely to remain in place)

It will be noted that the German competitors are listed as having represented 'Germany' in these Olympics, as opposed to 'West' or 'East' Germany. This is because they competed as part of a unified team at these Olympics


Here are some videos of the medal winning performances:-

MENS

Gold: Manfred Schnelldorfer (Germany)

This video (http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675036632_upsets-in-Winter-Olympics_bobsled-race_mens-skiing_mens-figure-skating) features clips from the free programs of all 3 medallists

Silver: Alain Calmat (France)

As well as the clip from the above video, there is also this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQpK2fLLGpI) of his free program from the 1965 world championships, which he won

Bronze: Scott Allen (USA)

See video above for clip

LADIES

Gold: Sjoukje Dijkstra (Netherlands)

Compulsories (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKUDWj-kTus)

Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkIM4rCHxC4)

Short Clip from Free Skate + Medal Ceremony (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAD1uFxBDL8)

1964 Post Olympic ISU Tour of Champions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unUse1PYnbc)

1963 Tour of Champions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bbQt6iGoc)

Silver: Regine Heitzer (Austria)

Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y96o4e4NIA)

Bronze: Petra Burka (Canada)

No video available. However, this video (http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675021208_World-Figure-Skating-Championship_Alain-Calmat_Petra-Burka_Ethan-Allen) features her free program from the 1965 world championships, which she won.

PAIRS

Gold: Ludmila Belousova & Oleg Protopopov (USSR)

Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G42i0gufEs)

Silver: Marika Kilius & Hans-Jürgen Bäumler (Germany)

Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eStFakSxAXI)

Bronze: Debbi Wilkes & Guy Revell (Canada)

No video available

essence_of_soy
06-22-2012, 02:03 AM
Thanks for sharing, and for the hypothesis on Laurence Owen, as well.

judgejudy27
06-22-2012, 02:05 AM
Without being morbid, I can't help wondering how if there had never been the 1961 plane crash, how Laurence Owen would have faired in Innsbruck.

Hopefully she would have won. Dijkstra is a ghastly free skater, although one of the best ever in figures.

sadya
06-22-2012, 08:11 AM
Her autobiography stated that Heiss told her that she believed Dijkstra would be the next Olympic Champion. If I remember correctly, it was on the Olympic podium which crowned Heiss that she told Dijkstra she'd be the next winner.

Of course ice is slippery, how often do we think skaters will win and then things like nerves, growth, stress fractures, etc. happen or new better talents come along by the time the next Olympics begin.

I love the skating of Owen. Just looking at her makes me smile, she takes you into her happy skating world when she's on ice at '61 championships. By the time of '64 Games she would have improved her already lovely skating and it could have been quite an exciting ladies long program event.

DORISPULASKI
06-22-2012, 10:35 AM
The only things I remember about this Olympics was the wonderful performance of the Protopopovs (I became an instant fan), and outrage at the high marks for Alain Calmat's utterly disastrous free skate. Not only did he have no triple jumps (and this is 16 years after Dick Button landed the first one), he fell several times during the program, which lost all coherence as a result.

It still remains my second "most wuz robbed" moment in skating fandom.

matti
06-22-2012, 11:13 AM
The victory of the Protopopovs was controversial, though. It was a 5-4 decision. Particularly judge Suzanne Francis of Canada (judges' and officials' oathswearer in Calgary 1988) gained notoriety by putting Wilkes&Revell second over Kilius&Bäumler. 16 years later in Lake Placid she again was under suspicion when she awarded an artistic mark of 5.9 for Linitchuk&Karponosov that gave them the gold over Regöczy&Sallay. Somebody spotted Dr. Francis ambling arm in arm with Elena Tchaikovskaya, both in their fur coats...

olympic
06-22-2012, 12:47 PM
The only things I remember about this Olympics was the wonderful performance of the Protopopovs (I became an instant fan), and outrage at the high marks for Alain Calmat's utterly disastrous free skate. Not only did he have no triple jumps (and this is 16 years after Dick Button landed the first one), he fell several times during the program, which lost all coherence as a result.

It still remains my second "most wuz robbed" moment in skating fandom.

I admit I know nothing about the '64 Olympics. IYO, would fair judging have put Scott Allen in 2nd? Or maybe he was far behind after figures ...

pollyanna
06-22-2012, 01:53 PM
It still remains my second "most wuz robbed" moment in skating fandom.
Okay, I'll ask. Which was your first "most wuz robbed?"

I was six years old, so I don't remember these Olympics at all. First Olympics I remember is 1968 - Peggy Fleming and 14 year old Janet Lynn.

judgejudy27
06-22-2012, 02:14 PM
The victory of the Protopopovs was controversial, though. It was a 5-4 decision. Particularly judge Suzanne Francis of Canada (judges' and officials' oathswearer in Calgary 1988) gained notoriety by putting Wilkes&Revell second over Kilius&Bäumler. 16 years later in Lake Placid she again was under suspicion when she awarded an artistic mark of 5.9 for Linitchuk&Karponosov that gave them the gold over Regöczy&Sallay. Somebody spotted Dr. Francis ambling arm in arm with Elena Tchaikovskaya, both in their fur coats...

Debbie Wilkes mentions in her autobiography she was so happy to the Protopopovs won not only since she loved them but it denied Marika Kilius who she despised with a passion of the Olympic Gold medal. She implied she was one of the nastiest women she had ever encountered. I have read several times the Germans and Austrians though blamed Suzanne Francis and her scores for the narrow defeat of Kilius & Baumler and were on the witchhunt for her, even going to Worlds. She even had to wear a disguise to get into the arena at Worlds later that year according to Beverly Smith.

Vagabond
06-22-2012, 03:38 PM
The only things I remember about this Olympics was the wonderful performance of the Protopopovs (I became an instant fan), and outrage at the high marks for Alain Calmat's utterly disastrous free skate. Not only did he have no triple jumps (and this is 16 years after Dick Button landed the first one), he fell several times during the program, which lost all coherence as a result.

It still remains my second "most wuz robbed" moment in skating fandom.

:confused:

Calmat finished fifth in the Free Skate.

http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/winter/1964/FSK/mens-singles-free-skating.html

ETA: And it had been only twelve years, not sixteen, since Dick Button landed the first triple jump in competition. http://www.jacksonskates.com/html/jumphist.html

skatesindreams
06-22-2012, 04:04 PM
What a split in the scoring!

DORISPULASKI
06-22-2012, 05:47 PM
I admit I know nothing about the '64 Olympics. IYO, would fair judging have put Scott Allen in 2nd? Or maybe he was far behind after figures ...

I was not that old either...16. I just remember the outrage :lol:

I thought Calmat should have been like 10th in the FS. He was 3rd in the figures & Allen was 4th. In 1964, it was cumulative points that counted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_1964_Winter_Olympics#Men_Sin gles

Allen was 4th in the free skate, Calmat 5th.



Okay, I'll ask. Which was your first "most wuz robbed?"

I was six years old, so I don't remember these Olympics at all. First Olympics I remember is 1968 - Peggy Fleming and 14 year old Janet Lynn.

The time when Tim Wood lost because a judge got his right hand and left hand confused and put up his score backwards. The judge tried to put it right, but it couldn't be done. Wood was still 2nd.

judgejudy27
06-22-2012, 05:55 PM
Which judge was it that put Woods's score in wrong. The British or Canadian. What score did he/she mean to put instead on which mark.

I have seen footage of the 1968 Olympics and for me Schwarz is a really weak skater to win the Olympics even for 60s standards. Danzer and Wood were both so much better. I know figures were a factor in the result, but I dont understand how his free skate could be compared favorably to either. His posture was worse than Timothy Goebel, he was stiff as a board, he had no musicality, and other than a triple toe he didnt do anything harder than a double lutz which he looked super excited to land, even though it is a jump Trixi Schuba could even do easily and with more power than him. He did a bunch of single axels. I can see how he never won a World title.

DORISPULASKI
06-23-2012, 05:10 AM
I don't recall exactly, but the judge meant to put up something like 5.0 but put up 0.5--that is, a reversal where the error was obvious, and the discrepancy from the other judges was glaring. In a cumulative point scoring system, where nothing was dropped, and both total points and total ordinals counted, it made the difference. I'm not even sure what part of which event it was. (Tech or artistic, FP or figures) But it was 1968 Olympics.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?10025-Interesting-article-about-Tim-Wood

The freep article is no longer on line.

It's such a long time ago.

Re Schwartz: and worse, with him winning, it wasn't great for the sport when Schwartz turned out to be such a scumbag, and garnered headlines like:

"Skating gold medalist gets 8 years for kidnap plot"

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=2542104

and
In December, Schwarz was acquitted of separate charges that he allegedly brought young Lithuanian girls to Austria to work as prostitutes. He was convicted on similar trafficking charges in 2002, when he admitted to bringing in five women from Russia and Lithuania. He insisted he did it to help the women.

Also, Danzer was better than Schwarz, for that matter.

Mafke
06-23-2012, 05:58 AM
I don't recall exactly, but the judge meant to put up something like 5.0 but put up 0.5--that is, a reversal where the error was obvious, and the discrepancy from the other judges was glaring....
It's such a long time ago.


I was just looking here

http://www.winter-olympic-memories.com/html/results/jp_3d/10_grenoble/10_figure/10_figure_m_ex.htm

and can't see it. The Brit judge had him tied for 5/6 place in the free but their placements were weird all the way around.

I keep hearing about this but can never pin down the exact details, which is muy frustrating.