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berthesghost
07-23-2012, 03:57 PM
I don't think it's safe to say that Penn State football is "done" --
Perhaps you're more idealistic than most. Very few recover from scandal.

jeffisjeff
07-23-2012, 04:00 PM
Ivy league universities have very limited athletic scholarships and don't go to Bowl games.

Just to clarify, the Ivy League has NO athletic scholarships. Financial aid is all need-based. And, they are permitted to play in Bowl games, they just generally aren't good enough and/or don't qualify according to toughness of schedule, etc. IIRC, the last time an Ivy team played a bowl game was in the 1930s, a time when the Ivies were pretty good at sports.

berthesghost
07-23-2012, 04:03 PM
And if I'm a girl who is pressured by a coach to have sex with him, I'm making the same trips.Unless your coach is morozov, then you'll just cry on twitter that you want to kill yourself because he dumped you for a teenager, and all of skating will just look away, just like they did when your pairs parter used to smack you around.

skatingfan5
07-23-2012, 04:08 PM
Perhaps you're more idealistic than most. Very few recover from scandal.Maybe I am. While it's true that very few recover (completely) from scandal, that doesn't mean that some can't make at least a partial recovery, in time.

Sparks
07-23-2012, 04:10 PM
What happened at SMU?

skatingfan5
07-23-2012, 04:18 PM
What happened at SMU?A bunch of stuff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal), their "slush fund" was one of the major violations.

Of course, I thought that Baylor's basketball scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University_basketball_scandal) deserved harsher penalties than it got, since it involved the murder of a player (by another player) and the coach taking part in an attempt to deflect the murder investigation from the team (among other transgressions by the coach). :yikes:

taf2002
07-23-2012, 05:03 PM
So some dude on the internet who posts that it's wrong to remove Paterno's statue from Penn State is as bad as Sandusky? I'm not buying it.

Where did I say that?

http://deadspin.com/5926561/i-hope-tim-tebow-rapes-a-kid-and-other-completely-sane-penn-state-fan-reactions-to-paternovilles-renaming

“I Hope Tim Tebow Rapes A Kid”

"This is ridiculous. Joe did so many great things for Penn State. This is being completely blown out of hand. Your letting one bad thing out weigh the so many positive things. Its appears as though this is being done to please people who probably arent even big supporters of PSU." (emphasis mine)

"Joe doesn't deserve any of this crap. Shameful, cowardly and knee-jerk."

These are just a few posts that disgusted me. It is clear to me that these posters are the type of people who would have also protected Penn State football over protecting kids. Sorry if this disgusting me offends anyone.

PDilemma
07-23-2012, 05:32 PM
A commenter at cnn.com has declared that the fans are now "victims", too, and no one cares about their "suffering".

We take sports just a bit too seriously if this constitutes "suffering". No perspective whatsoever.

taf2002
07-23-2012, 05:45 PM
When my future BIL was a junior in HS he was playing an away game & the ref made a bad call at the end that cost us the game. Parents & fans stormed out on the field & I remember one of the mothers (my Sunday school teacher) hitting the ref on the head with her purse. People were screaming & cursing & fighting - it was an absolute disgrace. The division fined our school & barred us from division play for the next year. You would have thought someone died, the grief for some people was so intense.

It is one of the reasons I seldom watch team sports - people get so caught up in the team & their record that they lose all good sense. Winning is fun but it has become such big business that values & morals are secondary to the win.

PDilemma
07-23-2012, 06:10 PM
I watch team sports. I love baseball. And I watch college football. I think that team sports can create a sense of community that is sometimes lacking in our lives. Roger Angell's classic piece called "Game Six" about the 1975 World Series speaks to this very well.

But I have perspective. I can sleep at night when "my team" loses. I don't consider myself to have "suffered" when that happens.

I would also say that I don't think avoiding team sports allows us to avoid that lack of or potential loss of perspective. The word "suffering" was thrown around the skating boards in regard to Alissa Czisny's placement at Worlds this past spring and the posters were not referring to Alissa but to themselves. (Although, I am pretty sure that was not here...can't remember for sure).

judiz
07-23-2012, 06:14 PM
I don't think it's fair for those students currently at the school to be punished for Sandusky's crimes. Take away the pensions of the administrators involved and open the doors for the victims to file lawsuits against all who kept quiet. If criminal charges need to be filed against those who remained silent, let it happen.

PDilemma
07-23-2012, 06:25 PM
I don't think it's fair for those students currently at the school to be punished for Sandusky's crimes. Take away the pensions of the administrators involved and open the doors for the victims to file lawsuits against all who kept quiet. If criminal charges need to be filed against those who remained silent, let it happen.

The problem is that the Freeh report confirmed what was suspected about the culture of Penn State: football was above all else on that campus.

The only way to change that dangerous culture is to take football down a level. Perspectives would not change if it were business as usual with winning football teams and bowl trips and the possibility of conference titles.

Our local college football powerhouse was the first team to play Penn State after the scandal broke and Paterno was fired. For a few days before and a few days after, there was all sorts of perspective here about the place of football and priorities and how wins/losses and sports are not all that matters. A week after that game, the team lost badly at Michigan and everything was back to normal with fans ranting about how they had been personally let down by the team losing and the "state of the program" and the competency of players and coaches and winning football games being the single most important thing in the state.

I guarantee you that opening kickoff at PSU in a month and a half, with no sanctions, would have brought out the same return to a complete lack of perspective on life outside of college football. Go look at their official website today. Nothing about this. But there is a handy countdown to kickoff at the top.

milanessa
07-23-2012, 06:28 PM
I don't think it's fair for those students currently at the school to be punished for Sandusky's crimes. Take away the pensions of the administrators involved and open the doors for the victims to file lawsuits against all who kept quiet. If criminal charges need to be filed against those who remained silent, let it happen.

:rolleyes:

barbk
07-23-2012, 06:29 PM
I don't think it's fair for those students currently at the school to be punished for Sandusky's crimes. Take away the pensions of the administrators involved and open the doors for the victims to file lawsuits against all who kept quiet. If criminal charges need to be filed against those who remained silent, let it happen.

I was quite pleased to see that the current football players are allowed to transfer and be immediately eligible. I hope those who want to can find another school (though scholarships may be tougher to get at this point.)

Given how touch NCAA sanctions can be for schools that provide extra meals or clothing to athletes, this doesn't seem to be out-of-line given the magnitude of the loss of control.

Perhaps it will also serve to cause some other schools dominated by the football culture to question whether their institutional control is adequate.

PDilemma
07-23-2012, 06:32 PM
I was quite pleased to see that the current football players are allowed to transfer and be immediately eligible. I hope those who want to can find another school (though scholarships may be tougher to get at this point.)

Given how touch NCAA sanctions can be for schools that provide extra meals or clothing to athletes, this doesn't seem to be out-of-line given the magnitude of the loss of control.

Perhaps it will also serve to cause some other schools dominated by the football culture to question whether their institutional control is adequate.

I linked in the thread in "Other Sports" the info on transfers. Schools that take PSU players will be allowed extra scholarships and have the number adjusted for next year.