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judgejudy27
06-21-2012, 06:13 PM
sorry irina was dominate due to the fact they (russian federation) heavily cheated for her. like euros won on 3 jumps.


Europeans had the weakest competition of all Irina's years as a top skater. Poykio came 2nd with 5 triples, the same Poykio who cant even beat a clean Emily Hughes, so of course Irina won with 3 triples, especialy a clean short by her does and should have put way way ahead of skaters like Poykio (if I recall she didnt even win the LP over Poykio and Liashenko that year).


to me irina wasn't as dominate why 1) after 2002 michelle didn't compete in gp events and in 2001-2002 especially in final shouldn't have won.

Michelle was never a threat to Irina under COP in 2004-2005 and 2005-2006, and would have been no challenge to an on fire Irina doing some of her strongest skating ever in the grand prix either of those seasons. She did beat Michelle and others regularly on the grand prix in the early 2000s. Thus your point is completely moot.

I agree that Michelle should have won the 2002 Grand Prix final but I thought Irina should have won in 1996 since they should have been 2nd and 5th in the short program. Either way it doesnt matter, 3 or 4 Grand Prix final wins makes little difference to things.

kosjenka
06-22-2012, 12:28 AM
Irina competed on almost all Europeans, while Michelle never competed on 4CC. I never understood that to be honest. I guess 4CC is not valuable to the NA federations as Europeans are to european federations.

I dont remember Kimmie at all from 2006, i THINK Morozov was the choreographer, but thats all.
Most of Plushenkos post 2003 titles are foggy to me because the repetitions of same stuff.
Ice dance is more rememberable for some reason, though I would like to forget most of Navka&Kostomarov programs...

Historically, the value is the same, but some careers and titles gained more public attention and sometimes there was no competition so it was just not interesting.

UGG
06-22-2012, 12:32 AM
I think it depends on the impact, maybe? Take, for example, Kimmie Meissner's first world championship and Michelle Kwan's first world championship.

Michelle's performances at those worlds shot her into another level above every one else she was competing against. She became IT. the one to beat. and then there is the whole "transformation" thing that some ladies have tried to do but it just always falls flat. (how many times do we see "this is her salome" and...its the same as what they were doing before). It was a legendary moment in skating.

Kimmie's was very nice and exciting and she deserved to win and skated awesome, but there was really no impact made in the skating world and basically its just a nice story. LOL.

As far as the Olympics go...lets look at Yuna and Sarah. Even though Yuna is a much better and more decorated skater than Sarah Hughes...I would again say that Sarah's win is more legendary. It has everything that the Olympics are made of-drama, underdog winning, all that stuff. Any time someone performs as the underdog at the Olympics...chances are Sarah will be mentioned in reference to the "anything can happen at the Olympics" scenario.

dawnie
06-22-2012, 02:48 AM
As far as the Olympics go...lets look at Yuna and Sarah. Even though Yuna is a much better and more decorated skater than Sarah Hughes...I would again say that Sarah's win is more legendary. It has everything that the Olympics are made of-drama, underdog winning, all that stuff. Any time someone performs as the underdog at the Olympics...chances are Sarah will be mentioned in reference to the "anything can happen at the Olympics" scenario.

It's been a decade since Sarah won and she is pretty much forgotten. For skating fans she is known as the one hit wonder and luckiest Olympic Champion of all time. To casuals, she's Sarah Who?

attyfan
06-22-2012, 03:01 AM
Irina competed on almost all Europeans, while Michelle never competed on 4CC. I never understood that to be honest. I guess 4CC is not valuable to the NA federations as Europeans are to european federations.
...


4CCs didn't exist until something like '99; IMO, it doesn't have the history or prestige of Europeans because it is so recent.

judgejudy27
06-22-2012, 04:51 AM
Sarah ruined her reputation in part by showing up in terrible shape for the following competitive season, then showing up in pathetic shape for her season of skating with Stars on Ice, unable to complete even double jumps cleanly, and being incredibly slow and heavy on the ice.

gingercrush
06-22-2012, 05:12 AM
4CCs didn't exist until something like '99; IMO, it doesn't have the history or prestige of Europeans because it is so recent.

No it doesn't have the history or prestige of Europeans. But Europeans isn't the competition it once was. And 4CC is arguably just as good competition and at times has been more competitive than Europeans. And fortunately gets taken serious as a competition now days.

sadya
06-22-2012, 08:36 AM
During the first years of Europeans non-European countries took part in those championships as well. Later they changed it into an event for European countries only.

spikydurian
06-22-2012, 09:11 AM
So going through all of the "Survivor" threads on here I've seen people dismissing skater's victories because of a supposed weak field during that competition. So it got me thinking, do you feel that some world/Olympic titles are worth more than others? (Ex. 2006 vs. 2010 Oly ladies) Or are all olympic/world titles equal, regardless of the level of competition?

I'd really like to see what you all think :D
A gold is a gold. The ultimate prize for athletes should be the OGM. But it doesn't mean an athlete who doesn't achieve the ultimate prize/OGM is a lesser athlete.

briancoogaert
06-22-2012, 09:51 AM
During the first years of Europeans non-European countries took part in those championships as well. Later they changed it into an event for European countries only.
It was not during the first years, because Euros date back to 1890's for Men and 1930's for Ladies.
IIRC, Euros were opened to North American skaters post-World War II, in 1947 and 1948 only. It was to thank North America for participating in WWII.
After 1948, they decided to stop it (maybe because they won Men and Ladies titles !!!).

Marco
06-22-2012, 11:35 AM
I was waiting for the Ando bashing. I'm waiting for the Butyrskaya hate.
It get's old real fast :mad:
In terms of a performance I remember Kwan winning Lalique in 96' as much as her Olympic silver in 98'. Or Ando's free skate at the Worlds in 2010 as much as Yamaguchi winning the Worlds in 91'.
So for me it's the enjoyment of the programe not the end result.
Results in the past have made me want to stick my head in the oven !.
Affection for skaters are what drive our memories & how important they are IMO.

How did I bash Ando? I didn't even mention Butyrskaya (plus I like her skating).

Glad to see you pretty much agree with the rest of my post though, even if you don't agree with my examples.

antmanb
06-22-2012, 12:26 PM
I think it depends on the impact, maybe? Take, for example, Kimmie Meissner's first world championship and Michelle Kwan's first world championship.

Michelle's performances at those worlds shot her into another level above every one else she was competing against. She became IT. the one to beat. and then there is the whole "transformation" thing that some ladies have tried to do but it just always falls flat. (how many times do we see "this is her salome" and...its the same as what they were doing before). It was a legendary moment in skating.


1996 was Michelle's third world championships having come 4th in Birmingham in 1995, and 8th in 1994. 2006 Worlds was Kimmie's first world championships, though she obvioulsy competed in the Olympics a few weeks before.

kwanatic
06-22-2012, 04:06 PM
Gold is gold IMO. One world title is equal to another; however, the performances and/or circumstances are different in every competition. As a result, some wins are more exciting, dramatic, controversial, etc. than others. It comes down to what sticks out in your memory.

Using Michelle as an example, I see her win at the 2000 worlds as her best b/c the way she won and the drama that went with it. She was 3rd after the SP and skated first in the last group which is always a bad draw b/c the judges have to leave room for the other top skaters. Michelle went out and delivered a flawless 7-triple program complete with 3-3, excellent speed, fire and attack...but she had to wait to see what would happen with Maria and Irina. In the end Michelle winning the LP won her the title, but there was some shuffling that happened due to Irina beating Maria and the standings flip-flopping or something. Point is it was exciting and drama-filled...it stands out for me b/c Michelle had to come out swinging in order to win and she did.

duane
06-22-2012, 04:48 PM
Sarah ruined her reputation in part by showing up in terrible shape for the following competitive season, then showing up in pathetic shape for her season of skating with Stars on Ice, unable to complete even double jumps cleanly, and being incredibly slow and heavy on the ice.
Didn't she grow 20 inches after the Olympics?

kwanatic
06-22-2012, 05:39 PM
Didn't she grow 20 inches after the Olympics?

Maybe sideways:P...oh, that was mean. I'm sorry...:slinkaway