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umronnie
06-19-2012, 07:58 PM
The Kings of Quad: An off-season project for quad-lovers, history buffs and rabid fans

Brian Joubert's Wikipedia page claims, without corroboration, that "Since 2001, he has landed more than 100 quadruple jumps in international competitions". Evgeny Plushenko's page is a little less definitive "It is estimated that he has landed a total of about 100 quads in competition". Reading this I was curious to know whether they have, indeed, landed 100 quads in international competition, and which one of them has landed more quads?

To find the answer I looked into the international competitions listed for each of them on their Wikipedia page. I checked CoP protocols, written reports over FSU, GS and other sources, as well as a few dozen youtube clips. I am still missing records of their quad attempts and results (landed/failed) for a couple of competitions.

If anyone has information on the following competitions it would help complete the listing:
Euros 2000 qualifying (Plush), Finlandia 2000 (Plush, both SP and LP), Euros 2002 Qualifying (Baboo), Euros 2004 qualifying (both).

Zemgirl
06-19-2012, 08:44 PM
I was curious to know whether they have, indeed, landed 100 quads in international competition, and – which one of them has landed more quads?
...
If anyone has information on the following competitions it would help complete the listing:
Euros 2000 qualifying (Plush), Finlandia 2000 (Plush, both SP and LP), Euros 2002 Qualifying (Baboo), Euros 2004 qualifying (both).
You must have been really curious to tackle such a thing...

Anyway, they both landed their quads in the qualifying at 2004 Euros (source (http://iceskatingintnl.com/archive/results_euros/European04.htm)), and Joubert landed a quad in the QR at 2002 Euros (source (http://ww2.isu.org/news/europe1.html)). No idea about the 2000 events.

Considering how long they have both been skating, I think it's likely that they have landed quite a lot of quads. But I've never seen any source that states an outright number for either.

PeterG
06-20-2012, 07:12 PM
This thread got me wondering about the Queens. (The ladies, I mean... :shuffle:)

Found this on wikipedia:


Ladies

1989 Surya Bonaly (FRA) attempts a quad toe loop at the European Championships; first quad attempt by a lady in a major competition. She also falls on a quad Salchow attempt.

1991 Surya Bonaly (FRA) lands an underrotated quad attempt at the World Championships.

1992 Surya Bonaly (FRA) lands an underrotated quad toe at the Olympics and later repeats this at the World Championships.[40]

2001 Sasha Cohen (USA) lands a quad Salchow in warmup and practice at Skate America, but her attempt in her long program ends up aborted.[41]

2002 Miki Ando (JPN) becomes the first woman to land a quadruple (a Salchow) at the Junior Grand Prix Final.[42]

A.H.Black
06-21-2012, 01:31 AM
I was in the stands and saw Sasha land that quad. It was a good one.

Cherub721
06-21-2012, 02:30 AM
I don't have the answers to the questions posed, but umronnie, I hope you will share what you have done so far. It sounds like a lot of work went into that. I imagine Plushenko must be well ahead even without the handful of events from 2000. You might be able to get your answers at a Plushenko fan forum - hopefully a Russian poster can volunteer to help you post it. He has to have ubers who tracked those events.

pinky166
06-21-2012, 03:30 AM
I think Javi might earn the reputation as the next Quad King. His quads were his most consistent jumps last season, and his 4t and 4s were equally good! His 4s might even be better than his 4t which is pretty rare. Amazing quad jumper. Hanyu's 4t is also very good, but not as consistent as Javi's quads. According to recent news, he has 4s now too and plans to try it in his FS (along with the 4t) this season.

umronnie
06-21-2012, 07:37 AM
I don't have the answers to the questions posed, but umronnie, I hope you will share what you have done so far. It sounds like a lot of work went into that. I imagine Plushenko must be well ahead even without the handful of events from 2000. You might be able to get your answers at a Plushenko fan forum - hopefully a Russian poster can volunteer to help you post it. He has to have ubers who tracked those events.

Thanks to the info Zemgirl provided I was able to complete Joubert's list. I now have him at 95 confirmed quads out of 117 attempts - that is quite an amazing 81% success rate.

You'd be surprised that Plushy is not well ahead. In fact, I have him at 94 successful quads out of 110 attempts (that's an amazing 85% success rate!). I assume the missing data could provide up to 5 more quads, and that would put him within one jump from the elusive 100.

I'm not sure people understand how amazing it is to get to this "mass" of quads. It would take years of competing plus an excellent technique to get there. Takahashi has been competing nearly as long as Joubert (he has 9 years of comeptition compared with Brian's 11) and has landed 20-something quads in that time. I haven't checked Stojko's record but I suspect his count will be in the 50s, as will be Yagudin's, and they are probably the closest.

Yeah, a lot of work went into this facts-finding mission, but I figured someone has to do it ;-)

misskarne
06-21-2012, 07:54 AM
Thanks to the info Zemgirl provided I was able to complete Joubert's list. I now have him at 95 confirmed quads out of 117 attempts - that is quite an amazing 81% success rate.

You'd be surprised that Plushy is not well ahead. In fact, I have him at 94 successful quads out of 110 attempts (that's an amazing 85% success rate!). I assume the missing data could provide up to 5 more quads, and that would put him within one jump from the elusive 100.



Wow, I would have thought that since Plushy has been doing them in competition since he was 15, he'd be much further ahead. That makes Joubert's stat pretty impressive.

senorita
06-21-2012, 11:18 AM
Did you really check all their competitions? ISu, Gps etc ? wow, that looks like a lot of work to do:eek:

briancoogaert
06-21-2012, 11:44 AM
Wow, I would have thought that since Plushy has been doing them in competition since he was 15, he'd be much further ahead. That makes Joubert's stat pretty impressive.
Absolutely. Plushenko has done it in the SP and LP for so many years and successfully, I thought he was way ahead of Joubert.

Zemgirl
06-21-2012, 12:03 PM
Wow, I would have thought that since Plushy has been doing them in competition since he was 15, he'd be much further ahead. That makes Joubert's stat pretty impressive.
I'm not surprised it's fairly close. Joubert has been doing quads since he was 17 or so, does them in both the SP and the LP, and hasn't taken full seasons off - so it pretty much evens out despite Plushenko's earlier start and relative consistency. Regardless, I think it's impressive that they've both been able to skate at the level they have for so long.

How much work went into this, umronnie? I figure the big events and anything with protocols wouldn't be hard to find but it's still a lot of time - and the 6.0 stuff, especially for smaller competitions, must have been a challenge.

ETA: I found something (http://web.archive.org/web/200012121924/http://www.euroskating2000.com/news.html) for you...

The third member of the Russian team and last year's silver medallist Evgeni Plushenko won the second group. He fell on his quad attempt but then landed a perfect triple axel/triple toeloop/double loop combination - the first skater to land this combination in competition - followed by four more clean triples and a slightly flawed triple salchow. His Russian folk music program was packed with fast steps and spins and earned two 5.9s for presentation and a total of six 5.8s to win first places from all the judges.

Cherub721
06-21-2012, 04:16 PM
Thanks to the info Zemgirl provided I was able to complete Joubert's list. I now have him at 95 confirmed quads out of 117 attempts - that is quite an amazing 81% success rate.

You'd be surprised that Plushy is not well ahead. In fact, I have him at 94 successful quads out of 110 attempts (that's an amazing 85% success rate!). I assume the missing data could provide up to 5 more quads, and that would put him within one jump from the elusive 100.

I'm not sure people understand how amazing it is to get to this "mass" of quads. It would take years of competing plus an excellent technique to get there. Takahashi has been competing nearly as long as Joubert (he has 9 years of comeptition compared with Brian's 11) and has landed 20-something quads in that time. I haven't checked Stojko's record but I suspect his count will be in the 50s, as will be Yagudin's, and they are probably the closest.



Wow, go Joubert! :D I didn't think it would be that close. The point about Plushy taking seasons off is well taken, and in recent years Joubert has been more likely to attempt 2 quads in the LP (3 at some events in 2006-07), while Plushy has been attempting just one in the LP. I didn't realize both were so far ahead of their competitors as well - very cool.

Are you counting rotated quads, or totally clean ones though? Joubert often seems to turn out or step out of his quads, while Plushenko's are usually 100% clean if he doesn't fall (which he hasn't done since... 2005 worlds?).

umronnie
06-21-2012, 05:24 PM
To answer your questions re how, what and how long, I haven't counted the time I spent on this project. The recent competitions - anything held under CoP - were easy to do since I keep copies of the protocol pdfs. It takes very little time to go through the proticols if you have a list of competitions. The ones held under 6.0 were a bigger problem, of course. I spend several hours wading through clips on youtube. The problem is that some of these clips' quality is not very good (we are talking about older competitions, after all) and it's not always clear what the jump is.

As I said in the title, it's a project for quad-lovers, history buffs and rabid fans, and I guess I am a bit of all three.

As for what I considered a landed quad - basically any fully rotated quad that the skater stood on. Turn-outs, step-outs and hands were accepted. Rotated quads so flawed that they received a -3 GoE, even without the fall deduction, I considered "incomplete" and not landed. I only considered international competitions - WC, EC, OG, GPs and senior Bs - mostly because it is very hard to get the records for domestic competitions, but you can assume that in 11 seasons they also landed more than 10 quads each in national competitions...

Plushy and Joubert have both competed for 11 seasons so the number of competitions they attended - and thus the opportunity to land quads - is roughly the same.

And here's another interesting bit of information: in all those years I counted ONE program Joubert did not attempt a quad in (TEB08 SP, where he only managed a 1T), and FIVE programs that Plushenko did not attempt a quad in, three of them when he was just 16, so we'll forgive him. Let's not hear about "watered down" content again, shall we?

Zemgirl
06-21-2012, 06:21 PM
Wow, go Joubert! :D I didn't think it would be that close. The point about Plushy taking seasons off is well taken, and in recent years Joubert has been more likely to attempt 2 quads in the LP (3 at some events in 2006-07), while Plushy has been attempting just one in the LP. I didn't realize both were so far ahead of their competitors as well - very cool.
Joubert only did three one time (2006 CoR) but he does still go for two on occasion, most recently in the SP at the Challenge Cup (IIRC). I think Plushenko has never landed more than two in one program because he only does 4T (although he has tried the 4Lz).

FWIW, Joubert hasn't taken whole seasons off, but he has missed quite a few events in recent years due to medical issues.


As I said in the title, it's a project for quad-lovers, history buffs and rabid fans, and I guess I am a bit of all three.
...
And here's another interesting bit of information: in all those years I counted ONE program Joubert did not attempt a quad in (TEB08 SP, where he only managed a 1T), and FIVE programs that Plushenko did not attempt a quad in, three of them when he was just 16, so we'll forgive him. Let's not hear about "watered down" content again, shall we?
I just like researching stuff, even relatively meaningless things. ;)

Joubert's miss at 2008 TEB was unintentional - he did plan a quad, but got the pick in wrong IIRC. I know of one competition as a senior where he deliberately did not attempt a quad: 2010-11 French Nats, in the LP.

Either way, pretty cool that they've landed so many quads and are still landing them at age 29 (Plushenko) and 27 (Joubert). I wonder which active skaters have the next highest number.

bartek
06-21-2012, 06:48 PM
Joubert only did three one time (2006 CoR) but he does still go for two on occasion, most recently in the SP at the Challenge Cup (IIRC). I think Plushenko has never landed more than two in one program because he only does 4T (although he has tried the 4Lz).

FWIW, Joubert hasn't taken whole seasons off, but he has missed quite a few events in recent years due to medical issues.


I just like researching stuff, even relatively meaningless things. ;)

Joubert's miss at 2008 TEB was unintentional - he did plan a quad, but got the pick in wrong IIRC. I know of one competition as a senior where he deliberately did not attempt a quad: 2010-11 French Nats, in the LP.

Either way, pretty cool that they've landed so many quads and are still landing them at age 29 (Plushenko) and 27 (Joubert). I wonder which active skaters have the next highest number.

Wow, a big research has been done. I may make videos with their quads after I've finished all of the ladies videos I'm making right now.

I think Stephane Lambiel also landed a quad many times. He couldn't do triple axel in SP so he had no choice other than to go for a quad.