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View Full Version : Interview with Weir `Deep down I'm an old Russian Lady'



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zaphyre14
06-12-2012, 07:09 PM
But the flip side of this is that when you choose to not pander, to live with "integrity", you should also accept the results of your choices. You shouldn't then complain about being under appreciated, under scored, under supported, under politicked for, underwhatever for not pandering to the rules set forward to win the competition. If you want to be artistic instead of a COP whore fine. But accept the fact that the COP whores are going to be ahead of you in the standings when the judges award marks based on COP rules.

Exactly.

psycho
06-12-2012, 07:51 PM
But the flip side of this is that when you choose to not pander, to live with "integrity", you should also accept the results of your choices. You shouldn't then complain about being under appreciated, under scored, under supported, under politicked for, underwhatever for not pandering to the rules set forward to win the competition. If you want to be artistic instead of a COP whore fine. But accept the fact that the COP whores are going to be ahead of you in the standings when the judges award marks based on COP rules.

He did not pander to the rules but he still played by the rules. Not every skater he competed againt was a COP-whore either (and thank god, otherwise the competition would have been unwatchable). Many, many people and other skaters/coaches feel that the product he put out was superior, even under COP, than the product put out by a lot of the skaters that finished ahead of him. If he feels like that too it would be disingenous to say otherwise and pretend politics were not involved.

Alex Forrest
06-12-2012, 09:44 PM
He did not pander to the rules but he still played by the rules. Not every skater he competed againt was a COP-whore either (and thank god, otherwise the competition would have been unwatchable)..

When I made the comment about Weir needing to learn the COP system, it was basic math I was talking about. I tend to doubt that his not putting in a 3jump combo, or maximizing his combos or jumping passes was because he was asserting his artistic integrity and just didn't want to be a code whore. I remember an interview where he was complaining how difficult the new system is where he is attempting new spins with new unreal positions. And I thought "You know Johnny, if you just add a 2toe to get all your combos in you'd earn back the points you're trying to gain on that spin".

I fail to remember any of his skates where he blatantly didn't follow the rules due to his artistic integrity. It's not like an Angela Nikidinov had she decided to say "Hell with it, I'm just doing a beautiful layback and stop with all these other positions". Weir's spins and FW looked as code whored as anyone's. It's strange how fans and nonfans and those in between react to a skater's deficiencies.

psycho
06-12-2012, 10:17 PM
When I made the comment about Weir needing to learn the COP system, it was basic math I was talking about. I tend to doubt that his not putting in a 3jump combo, or maximizing his combos or jumping passes was because he was asserting his artistic integrity and just didn't want to be a code whore. I remember an interview where he was complaining how difficult the new system is where he is attempting new spins with new unreal positions. And I thought "You know Johnny, if you just add a 2toe to get all your combos in you'd earn back the points you're trying to gain on that spin".

I fail to remember any of his skates where he blatantly didn't follow the rules due to his artistic integrity. It's not like an Angela Nikidinov had she decided to say "Hell with it, I'm just doing a beautiful layback and stop with all these other positions". Weir's spins and FW looked as code whored as anyone's. It's strange how fans and nonfans and those in between react to a skater's deficiencies.

You said:

Then it seemed he got caught up in a cult of personality rut, he didn't bother to learn the new IJS rules
Missing combos or jumps has nothing to do with Johnny's knowledge of COP or his program construction. Do you honestly think he missed them intentionally? These were mistakes he made in his programs. They have nothing to do with artistic integrity and I never said that. And you are contradicting your own statement that he never bothered to learn COP when you yourself admit that his spins and footwork were COP-appropriate.

Alex Forrest
06-12-2012, 10:49 PM
Missing combos or jumps has nothing to do with Johnny's knowledge of COP or his program construction. Do you honestly think he missed them intentionally? These were mistakes he made in his programs. They have nothing to do with artistic integrity and I never said that. And you are contradicting your own statement that he never bothered to learn COP when you yourself admit that his spins and footwork were COP-appropriate.

Yes, it appears I am contradicting myself. I was half serious. It wasn't like he was airlifted to another planet and had no clue what he should do and how he should train. There were several competitions where he never did 3jump combos when he could have, where he didn't maximize his combos when he could have, or done his 8 passes (only doing 7 when he could have done 8). I understand if you're having a rough night technically you might not get in your combos. Too many times that appeared to not be the case, and that he was just inappropriately advised on his layout. Jeffrey Buttle was clearly a very smart young man. He knew how to get every last tenth of a point, AND he was amazing to watch. I don't think Buttle sacrificed much artistically if at all in order to maximize his points to win. Weir never grasped it and I didn't know if he was just not too smart, had bad coaching/choreographers not knowing the rules, or frankly if he had a self-sabotage streak.

There's a thread that has skater vids when they were young. Weir at 2001 WJs was amazing: the speed, carriage, jumps, spins, musicality. He was clearly heading places. It's just sad that except for one world bronze, he didn't, and resorted to bizarre comments in interviews, and your basic fame whoring attention-seeking behavior. I hope he has matured alot in the last few years, though I don't think him saying in an interview he's basically an old Russian lady gives much hope.

I'm not arguing. I was a huge fan. I liked the contrast between him and Evan up to about 2006/2007 and rooted for Weir. But over that second Olympic cycle what I found in Evan was a young man who worked his butt off even though he may not have the natural talent of someone like Weir, while Weir seemed to be off in lala land. And skated like it.

psycho
06-12-2012, 11:05 PM
There were several competitions where he never did 3jump combos when he could have, where he didn't maximize his combos when he could have, or done his 8 passes (only doing 7 when he could have done 8). I understand if you're having a rough night technically you might not get in your combos. Too many times that appeared to not be the case, and that he was just inappropriately advised on his layout.

Johnny's layout ALWAYS had the correct number of combination and jumps. He omitted them as a mistake due to nerves or stamina or because he felt the previous jump was not perfect and he was afraid of making a mistake. He ALWAYS said it was a mistake and it was NEVER intentional. Do you think Oda does extra combos on purpose too?


Jeffrey Buttle was clearly a very smart young man. He knew how to get every last tenth of a point, AND he was amazing to watch. I don't think Buttle sacrificed much artistically if at all in order to maximize his points to win.

How amazing Jeff was to watch is debatable and a matter or personal taste, but he did interpret music well. He was also willing to choreograph a quad fall into his program to get points. Johnny would have never done something like that becuase he believes a fall disrupts a program. You call it stupid and being in lala land, others see it as commitment to performance. Again, to each his or her own, and I see no point for insults.


I hope he has matured alot in the last few years, though I don't think him saying in an interview he's basically an old Russian lady gives much hope.

You realize that was a joke, right?

Prancer
06-12-2012, 11:22 PM
And I would advocate the same for any other skater out there.

Then do it. I think it would be nice is if people took equal offense on behalf of skaters they don't particularly care for. Then I would find it easier to believe that it is the principle of non-bashing that is important and that it's not just taking offense on behalf of a favorite.

Instead, I see comments about skaters "pandering" to COP and the judges to get ahead (and succeeding) and having to live with their lack of integrity.

Honest opinion or bashing? It's so hard to tell sometimes.


If he feels like that too it would be disingenous to say otherwise

So if people feel a certain way, it would be disingenuous of them to say otherwise? Cool.

psycho
06-12-2012, 11:36 PM
Then do it. I think it would be nice is if people took equal offense on behalf of skaters they don't particularly care for. Then I would find it easier to believe that it is the principle of non-bashing that is important and that it's not just taking offense on behalf of a favorite.


I don't read any threads about skaters I do not like. If someone does not interest me, I do not go into that thread. That reduces negativity for both me and the fans of said skater. When I used to read threads on this forum on a regular basis, I did come to the defense of skaters I did not like. I hate bashing of people who are not here to defend themselves.

Instead, I see comments about skaters "pandering" to COP and the judges to get ahead (and succeeding) and having to live with their lack of integrity.


It's only a lack of integrity if they had to compromise their principles to get ahead. Or never had any principles to begin with.


Honest opinion or bashing? It's so hard to tell sometimes.
How about this: would you be willing to say what you typed to that person's face? If not, maybe it's a tad too much...

Gil-Galad
06-12-2012, 11:36 PM
A full interview of vintage Johnny. He certainly always caters to people's expectations, good or bad. So if someone wants to be offended, they will find plenty of reason, if someone wants to continue to love him based on this interview, they will find plenty of reason for that, too.

The only thing that took me aback a little was this

SM: Speaking of homophobia... you know how it is in Russia. Do you like it less as the result?
JW: It is painful to think people like me can't lead a normal life in Russian. It is painful to think those who speak up for them is being shut up. But what can you do? Being gay is not about being an American or a Russian or a Chinese or anything else. There is more or less the same amount of use everywhere. If I had a choice I would be heterosexual and wouldnt' suffer. It's so much easier! But I don't have a choice, nor does anyone else. It hurts me Russia doesn't recognize my way of living and hates it. But I love Russia despite it. I would have lived in Russia if I could. At least in Moscow.

Hmpf. Does he actually mean that?

psycho
06-12-2012, 11:41 PM
A full interview of vintage Johnny. He certainly always caters to people's expectations, good or bad. So if someone wants to be offended, they will find plenty of reason, if someone wants to continue to love him based on this interview, they will find plenty of reason for that, too.

The only thing that took me aback a little was this

Hmpf. Does he actually mean that?

He's expressed that sentiment before, so probably he does.

Prancer
06-12-2012, 11:53 PM
It's only a lack of integrity if they had to compromise their principles to get ahead. Or never had any priciples to begin with.

But clearly, you believe that that is the case with some of the skaters who have placed ahead of Johnny.

IMO, there is nothing more personal than attacking someone else's integrity without substantive cause. I would absolutely consider saying that someone has pandered to get ahead to be bashing, not to mention intensely negative.

YMMV, obviously. And no, I don't think you are off the hook for not naming names. That just broadens the field of insult.

You also aren't off the hook for not going into threads about said skaters and bashing them there; you are still bashing them. And you are bashing people who aren't here to defend themselves.


How about this: would you be willing to say what you typed to that person's face? If not, maybe it's a tad too much...

Yes, that's been suggested many times. The problem is, some people will say all kinds of nasty things to another person, face to face, without hesitation, so that's not a particularly useful as a standard or as advice.

psycho
06-13-2012, 12:04 AM
But clearly, you believe that that is the case with some of the skaters who have placed ahead of Johnny.

IMO, there is nothing more personal than attacking someone else's integrity without substantive cause. I would absolutely consider saying that someone has pandered to get ahead to be bashing, not to mention intensely negative.

YMMV, obviously. And no, I don't think you are off the hook for not naming names. That just broadens the field of insult.

You also aren't off the hook for not going into threads about said skaters and bashing them there; you are still bashing them. And you are bashing people who aren't here to defend themselves.


There is no 'clearly' in anything. You inferred that. I gave an abstract example about two roads to success. And if you read carefully, you'll see both roads include pandering, just to different groups of individuals. I did not even talk about integrity and pandering to judges in the same sentence or skaters placing above or below Johnny or anything in between. I brought up integrity talking about Takahashi and his insistence to do a quad. YOU are the one who assumed that just because I am praising Johnny that I am automatically putting other people down.

Just because I think Johnny and Takahashi have integrity, that does not automatically imply that what other skaters don't.

But nice try. ;)

Alex Forrest
06-13-2012, 12:05 AM
You realize that was a joke, right?

Well, maybe not a joke, he was being descriptive, and provocatively so. But I get such a Palinesque vibe from these types of people. They say something outrageous, get some copy, and then find the next thing to keep their name in the news and think they are being so cute about it. Eventually many people get tired of it. With Palin it was some outrageous quote and "Is she or isn't she running for president?" With Weir it's an outrageous quote and then "Is he or isn't he going for the Olympics?" That's how I can describe it right at this moment.

And if Weir is looking for a role model for artistic integrity I would suggest he research John Curry. This man came out of the closet either right before or right after his gold medal in 1976. His skating was unseen at the time, such a combination of ballet and skating. Curry did not back down, he even started his own ballet on ice company. He didn't go on interviews and disrespect himself or his sport. Curry always came across as having a deep inner integrity PLUS an integrity for the sport of skating. I have found Weir totally lacking in these things.

I wish him luck and hope he can watch old tapes of himself and get inspired by the Weir of old. But if his mindset is still 6.0 where he'd rather give up ten or twenty points because he doesn't want falls to ruin a performance, then maybe he should just stay away. Chan is the best skater in the world, and falls all the time. And wins. If Weir can't get into a competitive skater's mindset that you go all out and a fall does not take you out of contention, then he shouldn't return, because he won't make it back to the Olympics anyway.

I'm just satisfied to see him in drag and skating to Gaga with no difficulty.

kwanfan1818
06-13-2012, 05:41 AM
Curry was outed by the press: he didn't choose to come out publicly.

berthesghost
06-13-2012, 06:02 AM
Curry was outed by the press: he didn't choose to come out publicly.Care to elaborate? He admitted he was gay to a reporter who was interviewing him. Naive or gullible, yes. Outed, no. Now orser, he was outed. It's kind of hard to be both quoted and outed.
Curry was a brave one!
As was Cranston. Weir? Pfft