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vesperholly
06-12-2012, 07:39 AM
Isn't that what they're doing with this law?

:slinkaway Ought to read the article better ...

Badams
06-12-2012, 07:36 PM
Honestly, I wish they'd work on making healthy food more affordable. Eating fresh fruit, vegetables and meat is incredibly expensive and a PITA.

I totally agree. It's nice in the summer, when you can grow your own garden full of veggies, but in the winter it's almost impossible to eat very healthy. Pasta, rice, everything that's fattening and bad for you is way more affordable than out of season "fresh" veggies and fruits that have to be trucked in. :(

Prancer
06-12-2012, 07:47 PM
Pasta, rice, everything that's fattening and bad for you

Well, right there is one problem--are pasta and rice bad for you?

Depends on who you ask. Most diet experts still recommend that you get most of your calories from carbs. Rice is the primary diet staple of more than half the world's population. It's hard to believe it's bad for you.

I think everyone agrees that eating fruits and vegetables is a good thing, but only for part of your diet. Dieticians are actually seeing a small percentage of middle and upper middle class children who are suffering from dietary insufficiencies because their well-intentioned parents are feeding them too much fruit. What do you eat for the rest?

I'm not asking to get answers, just pointing out that it isn't all that easy to say what a healthy diet is.

michiruwater
06-12-2012, 08:14 PM
And there's a world of difference in the glycemic index and overall health value of white pasta, rice, and bread versus whole wheat/whole grain pasta, rice, and bread. The overabundance of processed flours, their really high glycemic index, and the strain they put on the pancreas is, IMO, the number 1 reason diabetes is an epidemic. Pastas made with 100% whole wheat do not have the same affect on the pancreas.

milanessa
06-12-2012, 08:17 PM
Pastas made with 100% whole wheat do not have the same affect on the pancreas.

And they taste like crap, IMO. :slinkaway

michiruwater
06-12-2012, 08:29 PM
Well, there are lots of different kinds :lol: I've had whole wheat pasta that tasted terrible, but some of the cheaper brands are actually pretty okay. I prefer whole wheat to white after eating nothing but whole wheat for a couple years. White doesn't taste like anything at all.

At the very least, if I don't want whole wheat, I buy the garden-fresh kind by someone (Barilla?) which is made with vegetables and semolina and has a fair amount of dietary fiber, which is what you need to lower the glycemic index.

If people wanted to eat white pasta without the glycemic index issue, then they would have to eat it at the same time as something low-carb that has a lot of fiber. Of course, most people just threw butter and cheese or Prego tomato sauce on, or something similar with no fiber.

Gil-Galad
06-12-2012, 09:21 PM
I totally agree. It's nice in the summer, when you can grow your own garden full of veggies, but in the winter it's almost impossible to eat very healthy. Pasta, rice, everything that's fattening and bad for you is way more affordable than out of season "fresh" veggies and fruits that have to be trucked in. :(


If people wanted to eat white pasta without the glycemic index issue, then they would have to eat it at the same time as something low-carb that has a lot of fiber. Of course, most people just threw butter and cheese or Prego tomato sauce on, or something similar with no fiber.
These pieces of advice kind of illustrate the problem of the fight against obesity.

Damning rice and pasta as bad is of course wrong and not helpful.

michiruwater on the other hand is absolutely right with her low-GI advice, but as a (future) health professional, I think only one third of the overweight people I have met, would understand it. And maybe one tenth of those would even consider to implement it. It sounds daunting "Never eat white pasta - or if you do you better make sure you have tons of fibers with it" (no offense meant, just taking this as an example for lots of similar advice in the media).

Eating healthily these days seems to me like a domain for the affluent, the intellectual - for people who have the time, the money and the resources - the necessary societal pressure. We (health professionals) don't reach the people we need to reach. We make it way too complicated. And now governments think that they can force people into healthy lifestyles by new laws and taxation. Because that has worked so well in the history of mankind.

Badams
06-12-2012, 09:44 PM
I guess I should have specified. The healthier wheat pasta and brown rice etc...is more expensive. On a tight budget, people won't buy it. I am well aware that not all of these things are bad for you, but that's not really what regular people are lead to believe. You'd be amazed at how many people either don't know how to read a food label, or don't even bother looking. And let's be honest...it's not cheap to feed a family healthy foods all the time in some areas, places where we have 6 months of winter, for example. If the government wants us all to eat healthy, perhaps they should make eating healthy affordable and possible for everyone. And I didn't even start discussing school lunches...:lol:

barbk
06-12-2012, 10:11 PM
I like the Ronzoni smart taste pasta, though I don't have pasta very often. The whole wheat and the rice pastas are generally terrible, imo. (And living in woo woo central, I encounter them a lot.)

I suspect that the bigger key is the portioning of the pasta. As a kid, we'd use a pound of spaghetti, a pound of hamburger, and a jar of Ragu to make dinner for six or seven people, possibly with a salad. Maybe not.

How many servings would you get out of that today?

Plate sizes have also gotten quite a bit bigger, and studies have shown that people put more food on a larger plate than on a smaller plate, just as they eat more food when taking it from a larger container than a smaller one. I've noticed that when I buy the really small, 99 cent bottles of dishwashing liquid, it lasts pretty much as long as the bottle three times the size. I think it is the same effect.

Just downsizing plates, cups, and containers is likely to be of some help. (Anyone else remember how big a small soda was at McDonalds in the '60s? I'm guessing five ounces of soda and some ice. Maybe four ounces. And we weren't desperately thirsty.

(And while we're at it, let's shrink the bagels back to the size they started at. They've gotten ridiculously large. A Dunkin Donuts plain bagel (no cream cheese) clocks in at 320 calories. A Dunkin Donuts Bavarian Creme donut clocks in at 210, and a sugar raised is at 170. Maybe the mayor wasn't so wrong after all, especially since most folks don't skip the cream cheese at the bagel place.)

michiruwater
06-13-2012, 01:44 AM
I guess I should have specified. The healthier wheat pasta and brown rice etc...is more expensive.

Brown rice might be (I don't eat rice really that often), but at Meijer, Kroger, Wal*Mart, the bottom price Meijer/Wal*Mart/Kroger brands all seem to generally have a whole wheat variety now. It's no more expensive to buy whole wheat pasta than white pasta.

Portions will help with pasta, yes, but white pasta by its very nature will spike a person's blood sugar. Because it is all refined carbohydrates with no fiber to help you digest it slowly, your bloodsugar will spike as though you are eating a candy bar. This is what it means to have a high glycemic index - it spikes bloodsugar due to having a high amount of carbohydrate and being digested very quickly (due to no fiber).

And yes, I've read a ton about nutrition and foods, as Gil-Galad guessed, and am also a type-1 diabetic who needs to know these things. I feel that the health classes in public schools should really explain these sorts of things though. I don't recall that my health classes ever explained any of this to us. I really want to go back at some point to get my certification in health so I might be able to teach that as well as music some day.

leesaleesa
06-13-2012, 01:54 AM
Well, right there is one problem--are pasta and rice bad for you?


I have a friend trying to lose weight who asked me to help her. She loves rice, so I asked her to show me what a serving of rice looked like-Her idea of a serving turned was not 1/2 a cup, it was 2 1/2 cups. I personally look at rice as a 1/3 cup serving. Rice and beans are a great choice, but many people delude themselves into thinking a full plate is a serving.

I don't buy into the whole glycemic thing myself, as I found that counting calories, measuring, and getting in five miles every day worked for me very well. People used to be much thinner because they burned so many calories despite eating lots of carbs and animal fats.

I used to do a lot of kayaking, and would go to Taco Bell after. No matter how you tried to explain that you did not want the giant tub of soda, they would insist that it came with the combo, and why would you want a small when you could get the large for the same price? I would explain that I would pay the full price of the combo, but give me the small pepsi. They usually tried to give me the damn tub anyway.

Ran into an old college roomate a few years back-She is about 5'4 and weighed about 150-160. She had gotten down to 120 by simply not drinking a 2 liter of mountain dew a day any longer, according to her.

MacMadame
06-13-2012, 02:00 AM
And they taste like crap, IMO. :slinkaway
I like the pasta made from quinoa, myself. I find it quite tasty.

Karina1974
06-13-2012, 02:00 AM
I don't buy into the whole glycemic thing myself, as I found that counting calories, measuring, and getting in five miles every day worked for me very well. People used to be much thinner because they burned so many calories despite eating lots of carbs and animal fats.



Seriously. Go pick up a copy of Farmer Boy and read a description of a typical dinner. If people ate that much food today, they'd definitely be obese, but when you're plowing fields, planting crops, raising and training livestock, cleaning stalls, etc. (not to mention walking several miles to school and back) you're getting as much exercise as an athlete in training.

leesaleesa
06-13-2012, 02:15 AM
Seriously. Go pick up a copy of Farmer Boy and read a description of a typical dinner

Heh. I was half thinking of the Little House series when I posted that.

michiruwater
06-13-2012, 02:17 AM
I like the pasta made from quinoa, myself. I find it quite tasty.

I've been curious about this! I only recently saw that it existed. If you try it, let me know :)


I don't buy into the whole glycemic thing myself, as I found that counting calories, measuring, and getting in five miles every day worked for me very well. People used to be much thinner because they burned so many calories despite eating lots of carbs and animal fats.

Carbs in the past were not remotely as refined as the white pasta of today. They had a lower glycemic index :shuffle: Definitely what you're saying is true, but the refined carbs are a big part of the problem when it comes to the type-2 diabetes epidemic. It is a definite fact that strain upon the pancreas and upon our bodies is what prevents people from producing and absorbing the insulin they need to regulate their bloodsugars, and it is a fact that refined carbs spike a person's blood sugar. I'm not sure what there is to buy in to.