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MacMadame
06-16-2012, 09:52 PM
You'd be surprised. One of my co-workers does it all the time.
I'm not surprised they do it. I'm surprised they are invited back. ;)


I can see the resourcefulness in scamming free food. I just don't think you can really expect everyone to do this successfully, as part of a regular budget and diet plan.
For one thing, it's not sustainable. If *everyone* did it, there would not be enough leftovers to go around.

Prancer
06-16-2012, 10:44 PM
Wow, you got me. My $1.15 breakfast IS less than your .99 cent junk food meal, but I suspect you didn't factor the tax in.

$1.15 IS less than .99?

Do you pay tax on food where you live? I don't.


But, we are off track. Banning large sized soft drinks will not cure obesity. Education will help. Better choices will help. Exercise will help. We may not become stick thin, but we do have some control.

But as Blue Ridge suggested many pages ago, the ban of super-sized drinks could be a way of getting people to become educated about the choices they make.

And that may be more effective than we think:

Lead researcher Ali Mokdad said the reduction is largely thanks to aggressive efforts by city health officials to simply take away unhealthy choices from residents. The health department has, for example, banned trans fats, prohibited smoking in public spaces and hiked taxes on cigarettes. It has also rolled out hundreds of miles of new bicycle lanes, mandated the use of calorie labels on menus in chain restaurants and plastered posters up in subways with information about the risks of obesity and the benefits of preventive health services

http://news.yahoo.com/want-live-longer-move-nyc-204217030.html

MacMadame
06-16-2012, 10:56 PM
Btw, if you are interested in more from Guy Taubes, this article quotes him extensively

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/06/why-the-campaign-to-stop-america-s-obesity-crisis-keeps-failing.html

Also, that article doesn't provide any supporting evidence for Ali Mokdad's claims.

barbk
06-16-2012, 11:41 PM
Well I look at it like this, not only is she providing free food for herself but free entertainment for others. It's a win-win for everyone.

I'm a bit worried about the food safety aspect of taking food that has been sitting out at a buffet for some time, transporting it home, refrigerating it at that point, and then eating it at some later time. :yikes: (My co-leader at a GS day camp many years ago was a hospital nutritionist, who showed up every day at camp with her thermometer with food sleeves and a huge cooler filled with ice cubes. Hot food was hot, cold was cold, and there was no question about that.)

jlai
06-17-2012, 12:27 AM
Re: taking food home. If people present don't mind then it doesn't matter. Esp if it's between going to the garbage or taking it home.

taf2002
06-17-2012, 05:51 AM
We have been told forever that being overweight is a matter of personal choices and/or a lack of willpower. But science has shown over and over that this is mostly not true. There have been many, many studies showing that bodies have a set point that they fight to keep at and that dieting, in people who are genetically prone to obesity, actually causes weight GAIN because it causes the body to raise that set point.

I've heard this theory before but I have a hard time believing it. That may be the case now because we now have a whole generation of kids who were raised with fast food, high caloric junk, & sedentary activities like video games. But when I was a kid I hardly ever saw an overweight person, certainly not an overweight kid.

My mother was raised on a farm & she cooked for us like we were about to go out & plow the fields or pick cotton. We ate fried chicken at least once a week & stuff like mashed potatoes & gravy, home fries w/red beans & cornbread, & we usually had dessert. But we seldom ate between meals and we also did chores, pulled weeds, hung clothes on the line, walked to school, played outside till dark, etc. I was able to keep to a normal weight until well into my 40's...it wasn't until I went thru a depression that I started putting weight on & then later I quit smoking & gained more weight, so I definitely believe it's a matter of personal choice & lack of willpower. In my case at least.


Re: taking food home. If people present don't mind then it doesn't matter. Esp if it's between going to the garbage or taking it home.

If it's a potluck & it's leftover then I believe it's fair game as long as the takers are people who brought something. Of course, it's usually the same people who never bring anything.

Prancer
06-17-2012, 05:57 AM
If it's a potluck & it's leftover then I believe it's fair game

But it isn't a potluck; it's a Gala. Which I assume is a catered event.

MacMadame
06-17-2012, 07:41 AM
I've heard this theory before but I have a hard time believing it.
It's not really a theory at this point. There are tons and tons of studies that support it. We've actually known about this "famine effect" since about WW II. (The body interprets a diet as a famine and responds by trying to get you to gain back all your weight and then a cushion (usually 10 pounds) so that it has wiggle room for the next famine.)

Also, there have been fat kids in every age. Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I certainly saw them when I was growing up in an age where soda was only served at parties and junk food was a rare treat and dessert wasn't served every night.

Secondly, obesity isn't a simple problem with one cause. These days our environment has changed quite a bit and it's only been decades which isn't enough time for our genetics to evolve to cope with all the processed food we get that spikes our insulin, etc., etc.

There is a theory that this change in environment has triggered more people who are genetically prone to obesity to actually have it. That is just a theory but it makes sense to me. Because we are eating too much and the wrong kinds of food and don't have as much built-in exercise, kids gain weight and get put on diets and it starts the cycle of yo-yo dieting that leads them to be morbidly obese at young ages.

This is actually something that pisses me off. We have the science to back up what doesn't work yet the so-called experts keep pushing their bad advice in an effort to do *something*. They tell people to eat too many carbs and they encourage kids to go on diets when a known risk of dieting is gaining weight. Then groups have campaigns to shame fat kids as if shaming people ever caused them to lose weight. I think it's disgraceful, actually.

kwanfan1818
06-17-2012, 10:15 AM
Can't you just see it in a few years. Obesity has been outlawed. Authorities go door to door arresting people for being too fat, and imprison them. While in prison, they are put on strict diets and excercise programs. The only way to serve out your sentence is to lose weight to your prescribed accpetable size.

One of my favorite "New Yorker" cartoons, by Max Lorenz:
http://www.condenaststore.com/-sp/The-Secret-Shame-of-Paris-Predawn-Roundup-of-Fat-Frenchwomen-New-Yorker-Cartoon-Prints_i8575080_.htm


Have you tasted carrots lately? They've got nothing on chips, pop, or all the other crap that's out there. And I say this as someone who eats quite a bit of veggies. People eat unhealthily in part because it tastes good.
It's why grease and salt are two of the four food groups, and bacon is the perfect food.

Steven Gaulin and William Lassek wrote a book called "Why Women Need Fat" in which they discuss the role of polyunsaturated fat replacing saturated fat in the big increase in weight for US women after Eisenhower's heart attack and the impact of subsidies for corn and soy as well. Here is an interview with the authors, in which they summarize set (weight) points (all of which they discuss in detail in the book, with cited studies):
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/19/why_women_need_fat/

skatefan
06-17-2012, 11:33 AM
What a lot of people don't know or understand is how much food costs in this country are manipulated. Do you know why corn and corn products such as corn syrup are in everything? It's because corn production is heavily subsidized. That makes it cheap and that makes it a great filler ingredient and substitute for something healthier that isn't subsidized.

Interesting that you mention the corn syrup - this article is a follow up of a tv programme broadcast last week:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2012/jun/17/men-made-us-fat-review?newsfeed=true


In more recent times, though, it has been possible to blame the Americans (ahead of the game in so many ways) for introducing industrial-scale farming in the 70s. Flooding itself with cheap food seemed a good idea at the time and produced the added bonus (or, as we now see it, unintended consequence) of vast surpluses of corn, which in turn led to the miracle food of high-fructose corn syrup.

It was what the American sweet tooth had been aching for. A third cheaper than sugar, corn syrup was soon in everything on the national menu, from ketchup to burger buns to processed meats to pizza toppings. But most of all it was in fizzy drinks, today the single biggest source of calories in the US. In movie theatres and sports arenas, "cups" grew to the point where it is now thought perfectly unremarkable to stagger to your seat with the equivalent of a window-cleaner's bucket. How did everyone get so thirsty?

The answer was that corn syrup was not only cheaper than sugar, it was also sweeter. And food manufacturers give generously. As one expert put it: "The sweeter they make it, the more we buy."http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k0fs0 'The Men Who Made Us Fat'


Scientists explained that the fructose in corn syrup was unusually efficient at metabolising into fat; that it could play havoc with the appetite, suppressing the hormone leptin, which in former days would be telling the brains of cinemagoers to go easy after a Kia-Ora and a packet of Spangles. It was a recipe for addiction, which was good for no one apart from those who made the stuff.

snoopy
06-17-2012, 12:33 PM
I am not sure if MacMadame is saying one can't improve their weight condition - I wouldn't agree with that. But to crusin's point about being neurotic - yes. Once your physiology has been impaired, I think you do have to be neurotic or OCD or have a super human commitment to keep the weight off. It is not the same thing as just picking the red shoes over the black ones.

cruisin
06-17-2012, 03:23 PM
But as Blue Ridge suggested many pages ago, the ban of super-sized drinks could be a way of getting people to become educated about the choices they make.

I agree about education. Which is why I think that fast food/restaurant food should be "labeled" for calorie and nutritional value. But, I do not think the government should ban drink sizes. First, they really can't control how much people drink by doing that. Instead of buying 1 20oz drink, they'll buy 2 12oz drinks. And second, how much control should the government have? The town of Middleborough, MA has just voted to impose a $20 fine for public cursing. How do you feel about that? Is that the beginning of infringing on free speech? Is it similar to allowing the government to limit the amount of soft drinks we can consume? Is it insidious? What is wrong with people regulating themselves? Are we that helpless?


I've heard this theory before but I have a hard time believing it. That may be the case now because we now have a whole generation of kids who were raised with fast food, high caloric junk, & sedentary activities like video games. But when I was a kid I hardly ever saw an overweight person, certainly not an overweight kid.

It's not that simple. I was an overweight kid. I really did not eat all that much. I went out and played, as most kids did during the 50's & 60's. I rarely snacked. But, I was blessed with a slow metabolism. The way I lost the weight was by basically starving myself and exercising obsessively. I keep it off by being extremely rigid with what I eat, after years of eating disorders. I probably live on about 1,000 calories a day. And I work out every day. No excuses. I recently needed a few oral surgeries, I got up at 4am to work out before the surgeries. I am in total control because I know that if I eat something that makes me uncomfortable, I might lose control. But, if I ate more normally, I would gain weight, I know that for a fact.


I am not sure if MacMadame is saying one can't improve their weight condition - I wouldn't agree with that. But to crusin's point about being neurotic - yes. Once your physiology has been impaired, I think you do have to be neurotic or OCD or have a super human commitment to keep the weight off. It is not the same thing as just picking the red shoes over the black ones.

Yes, and even super human commitment is probably OCD :). It's not easy, it's very hard, and frustrating. But, I have to choose eating normally or gaining weight. I can't live with gaining weight, because I would live in constant fear of becoming obese again. It was hell being an obese child/teen. And that terrifies me. That is what keeps me in control.

agalisgv
06-17-2012, 04:27 PM
It's not fun, but I have control.

I am in total control

That is what keeps me in control.
So you're obsessed with being in control, which I gather is the hallmark of someone who is eating disordered. Yet:

I can't live with gaining weight, because I would live in constant fear
that terrifies me. IOW, you live in fear of losing control. So really, you aren't in control, but rather allow food to control you (which I believe that's another hallmark of eating disorders).

I find it a little ironic that someone who is actively suffering from eating disorders (which IMO your posts clearly demonstrate) and appears to be quite psychologically constrained by them is giving advice to others about eating habits :shuffle:.

michiruwater
06-17-2012, 04:41 PM
I agree with your overall assessment that cruisin's obsession with control is indicative of a larger underlying problem - and I wouldn't be surprised if she already knew that, actually, based on many past posts about this topic - but I don't think chastising her for giving other people advice will really help, agal. You're so analytical, and I can absolutely relate to that as I have similar tendencies, but the above post really indicates a total lack of compassion to me.

agalisgv
06-17-2012, 04:56 PM
Sometimes compassion is used by those with psychological issues to manipulate the response of others around them. And that tends to happen a lot with people with eating disorders. There's a narcissistic quality to eating disorders, and continually framing debates around that only feeds the disorder. Enabling that isn't really compassion.