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nubka
06-16-2012, 06:09 AM
Can we put some vodka in it? :D We can toast our good health!

Lots of crushed ice, too... :cool:

MacMadame
06-16-2012, 06:49 AM
I eat whole tomatoes all the time. But only when I run out of carrots because carrots don't leave juice everywhere. :)

And "baby" carrots are actually a processed food. They cut out the middle of a carrot and shape it to look like a carrot. So you are missing a lot of the fiber and vitamins.


The topic was obesity, and I addressed my particular situation and how I am able to to avoid obesity through diet and exercise.
And being genetically blessed.


It's your choice to put up roadblocks instead of figuring out how to get around them.
It's not "putting up roadblocks" to discuss the realities of the food industry in this country and how that impacts people's eating. For one thing, you can't figure out how to get around something you aren't willing to admit even exists.

agalisgv
06-16-2012, 12:50 PM
The topic was obesity, and I addressed my particular situation and how I am able to to avoid obesity through diet and excercise. Well, no. The claim you made was you can eat a wholesome meal on less than what a fast food meal costs. I pointed out that fast food meal costs less than $1. You went on saying you can eat for close to that, but basically by bumming food off of others.

IOW, you can't make your wholesome meal unless someone else is paying for it. Now, you might find that okay to do, but the original point was it sometimes costs less to eat a meal at a fast food place than to make it on your own. And if your response is you can do it cheaper because you get others to pay for it instead, that only reinforces the point about fast food often times being cheaper than homemade meals.

None of the above is really about obesity. It's more about food costs.

cruisin
06-16-2012, 02:12 PM
Well, no. The claim you made was you can eat a wholesome meal on less than what a fast food meal costs. I pointed out that fast food meal costs less than $1. You went on saying you can eat for close to that, but basically by bumming food off of others.

But, can you really eat at a fast food restaurant for $1? They may have $1 items, but they are not full meals. And, do people who eat fast food, eat junk food in addition. It may be that they save by eating at McDonalds, but are they also eating bags of chips, candy bars, sodas, etc. I do think that with couponing and wise choosing, you can eat healthy and not spend more, or much more than fast food. Eating right and exercise just are not priorities for some people.


None of the above is really about obesity. It's more about food costs.

To some degree, it is. Food choices are about obesity. Portion control is about obesity. Even people who feel they must eat fast food can make better choices. A small burger, with no cheese, an apple, and a glass of water is cheaper than a big Mac, a large fries, and a large soda or shake. Exercise is about obesity. And that doesn't have to cost anything but time and effort.

skatefan
06-16-2012, 02:24 PM
Oh, I've heard that many times, yes, and I definitely think that fats are villified more than they need to be. I've read a bunch of stuff both for and against high-fat diets and I haven't quite come to my own conclusion on that yet, which is why I didn't post on it :)
You may find this programme interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k0fs0 I watched it a couple of days ago and was :eek: at some of the information ... I hope it's not geoblocked :shuffle:

Karina1974
06-16-2012, 02:43 PM
But we have a permanent, year-round, indoor farmer's market that has little restaurants, a big eating area with live music, and non-produce booths like fresh flowers and organic products

SOunds like the one in my city. Our PBS station just did a special on Troy, NY that included a segment on the Troy Farmer's Market. It also runs year-round, outside in the summer months, and inside the Troy Atrium during the winter and inclement weather. Live music, food, crafts, etc. I had no idea how big it was, and now I'm going to have to go and check it out. It's also within a comfortable walking distance from my house, which is nice, too. :)

agalisgv
06-16-2012, 03:26 PM
But, can you really eat at a fast food restaurant for $1? They may have $1 items, but they are not full meals. To me a burrito would constitute a full meal. And the comparison was a single egg and oatmeal. I think the burrito would be more of a meal than one egg and oatmeal.

YMMV

You can get a large cheese pizza from Little Caesars for $5. That can feed an entire family. Hard to beat that cooking at home.
do people who eat fast food, eat junk food in addition. Do people eating at home eat junk food in addition?


It may be that they save by eating at McDonalds, but are they also eating bags of chips, candy bars, sodas, etc. And it may be people eating at home do the same.

But the contention was one could make a meal at home consisting of eggs, oatmeal, and fresh fruit for less than a meal at a fast food place. I cited the cost for a fast food meal being less than $1. The response to that was the oatmeal and egg cost only a little more than that, but the fruit had to be provided gratis from her employer in order to even be somewhat comparable.

IOW, her contention that her meals were cheaper than fast food were erroneous.

cruisin
06-16-2012, 03:38 PM
^^ But I was speaking more generally than what leesaleesa was saying.

agalisgv
06-16-2012, 03:50 PM
^^ But I was speaking more generally than what leesaleesa was saying. I wasn't

MacMadame
06-16-2012, 05:25 PM
IOW, her contention that her meals were cheaper than fast food were erroneous.
In fact, it is well documented that, for the most part, fast food and processed food is cheaper than fresh food and healthy food, at least in the US. To say otherwise is delusional and shows the person isn't counting the true costs.

This doesn't even get into the issue of spoilage. Processed crap keeps forever while quite a number of the fresh fruit and veggies I buy ends up in the garbage because it doesn't quite get eaten in time and it gets moldy before I can catch it and freeze it or use it in some other manner. That's inevitable with fresh food even with the most together home-maker. And that's just once you buy it. There is spoilage all along the food chain and it's much greater for fresh food than processed food.

What a lot of people don't know or understand is how much food costs in this country are manipulated. Do you know why corn and corn products such as corn syrup are in everything? It's because corn production is heavily subsidized. That makes it cheap and that makes it a great filler ingredient and substitute for something healthier that isn't subsidized.

If we want fresh food and healthy food to be cheaper and comparable to stuff like Hamburger Helper and a Taco Bell burrito, we need to change what food gets what subsidies. It's not going to happen just with a free market because we haven't got a free market when it comes to food. The market is skewed and manipulated.

cruisin
06-16-2012, 05:59 PM
Waste can depend on how you shop, and how you store foods. I don't buy more vegetables or fruit than is typically eaten in 4 days. Then if it goes a bit longer, it is fine. I also refrigerate all fruits and vegetables, except bananas. They keep linger in the fridge. I only buy meat/chicken/fish, the day I plan to use it, maybe the day before. I buy cereals and that sort of food product, in bulk, because it keeps. I store it in air tight containers.

And Agalisgv, I really don't consider a breakfast burrito much of a meal. Way too much fat. I don't eat eggs, cheese, or butter, so... I eat a whole grain cereal with raisins and skim milk. At $4 a box (which lasts me 7 days) + 1/2 cup skim milk + a handful of raisins, I'm around a dollar for breakfast. I eat a piece of fruit and a yoghurt for lunch - cost, about $2.50. Dinner is usually chicken or fish and salad. I make my own dressing with oil and vinegar, so that's not too much. My point is that a person, who choses to eat healthily can do it fairly inexpensively. I power walk 3 miles a day, do stretching exercises, crunches, and weights every day. It costs me whatever the cost of a pair of sneakers costs. And the initial $30 for the weights, 10 years ago. Again, my point, you don't have to pay for a $$$ gym membership to get exercise. You have to just do it (as Nike would say).

This thread began about the ridiculousness of imposing bans on large sugary drinks. Whether or not the government needs to hold our hand for food choices. Large sugary drinks are not $1. Controlling weight is about healthy foods, portion control, limiting snacks, and getting exercise. The problem is more about people being too lazy to shop wisely and liking junk foods than cost.

agalisgv
06-16-2012, 06:11 PM
I wasn't quoting costs for breakfast burritos. That is the cost of a regular burrito with toppings that is served for lunch/dinner.

MacMadame
06-16-2012, 06:23 PM
Waste can depend on how you shop, and how you store foods.
Well of course. But fresh food has more spoilage. Hamburger helper keeps for YEARS. Bananas don't keep for years.


My point is that a person, who choses to eat healthily can do it fairly inexpensively.
Only if you count just money. If you count your time -- which is a resource too -- then the cost goes up.

The thing is, if it was all so easy and cheap to do, more people would do it.


This thread began about the ridiculousness of imposing bans on large sugary drinks. Whether or not the government needs to hold our hand for food choices. Large sugary drinks are not $1.
You can get a large soda -- one large enough to qualify for this ban -- for about $1.75. Cheaper some places.

I will say, one good thing about a ban like this is that it might help with getting portion sizes under control. But I doubt it because it's just a band-aid and I think it won't have much impact at all and will quietly go away fairly quickly.

cruisin
06-16-2012, 06:29 PM
The thing is, if it was all so easy and cheap to do, more people would do it.

I disagree. I don't think most people make bad food choices because of cost. They make them because they just like the taste of unhealthy food better. Or, they are uninformed. I would love to eat cheeseburgers, ice cream, french fries - they're delicious. I do not eat them because they are not good for me. If we go to a restaurant, I ask them to leave the butter off the vegetables (steamed only), no sauces on chicken or fish, no pastas, no potatoes. It's not fun, but I have control.


I will say, one good thing about a ban like this is that it might help with getting portion sizes under control. But I doubt it because it's just a band-aid and I think it won't have much impact at all and will quietly go away fairly quickly.

But, should the government be doing that? We don't want the government to tell us what we can say, but we want them to tell us what and how much we can eat? We want rights, but we want to be controlled? The more control we give the government the less we have ourselves. It is, once again, about personal responsibility.

barbk
06-16-2012, 06:49 PM
Controlling weight is about healthy foods, portion control, limiting snacks, and getting exercise. The problem is more about people being too lazy to shop wisely and liking junk foods than cost.

The numerous separated identical twin studies show remarkably similar body composition thirty, forty and even fifty years after birth. If one is skinny, the other is skinny too; if one is fat -- the other is too, and has the fat depositions (apple vs. pear) in the same places. There's still a strong correlation even with fraternal siblings or regular siblings. (Of course, nobody has yet answered the question of why so many twins/siblings have been separated. :eek:)

Taubes gives the example of the many seriously obese women in areas where malnutrition is high -- emaciated children, obese moms. He asks whether we really believe that these moms behave unlike moms everywhere else -- do they take in all the calories and leave their children to starve? He doubts it, and I do too. He further says that when autopsies have been conducted, these women have bodies whose lean muscle mass, including their hearts, has been ravaged by famine while their adipose tissue appears to be intact.

I think he provides plenty of evidence to suggest that it is all a lot more metabolically dependent than we have credited, and that if you're insulin resistant, losing fat on a diet high in carbs, simple or complex, is an enormously hard challenge.

And, you might find this short article interesting when considering the question of exercise:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47694881/ns/health-childrens_health/#.T9zDuCtYshx

I'm not advocating that anyone drink sodas, but I have come to believe that the government's recommended low fat, high carb diet was a metabolic disaster for me personally and for many other people. (And it doesn't mean that I sit home eating pork rinds and bacon.)