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View Full Version : Czisny to undergo surgery for torn labrum in left hip



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PDilemma
05-23-2012, 02:27 AM
Is it possible that Alissa's poor jump technique, frequently off-axis, exacerbated her hip problems? It may also be that her extreme flexibility was also a factor. Yuka and Jason could not possibly correct such ingrained problems.

This is the same injury that Kwan had. She did not have jump problems like that nor was she extremely flexible.

As many have explained here, several of them in the medical profession, this is a repetitive use injury that skaters are particularly prone to. Alissa has been an elite senior level competitor for around ten years.

aliceanne
05-23-2012, 03:00 AM
Thank you so much, pingu!

Thanks from me too. That was an excellent explanation. I always wondered why parents allowed their child to continue competing with a hip injury, but it sounds as if the warning pain only occurs after the damage has been done.

Marco
05-23-2012, 03:21 AM
Is there a specific element or position that contributes more to this injury than others? (loop? Y spin? split?)

rfisher
05-23-2012, 03:29 AM
Is there a specific element or position that contributes more to this injury than others? (loop? Y spin? split?)

I doubt it since this is a common injury among hocky players or golfers as well as figure skaters. It's the twisting motion in the hips.

And, it's hardly exclusive to females since they don't play hockey and it's male golfers who have the problem. Is this not the same issue Yagudin had surgery for?

kittyjake5
05-23-2012, 03:30 AM
I wonder if this particular injury is more prone to female skaters than to male skaters. I don't recall hearing about this injury with the men skaters.

Coco
05-23-2012, 03:55 AM
Thanks for the explanation, pingu :) Sounds ominous, though. Hope she at least has a full recovery as far as normal life and recreational activities go. I don't see landing triples in her future, sad to say.

AJ Skatefan
05-23-2012, 04:09 AM
Two star players on the WNBA team Seattle Storm (women's basketball) had the same injury last year. They both were out for a couple months and came back to play and look like nothing ever happened. Of course basketball is nothing like skating but their bodies do take quite a pounding.

maureenfarone
05-23-2012, 10:32 AM
I think this is the same injury that Michelle, Tara Lipinski, and Naomi Nari Nam had. I also remember Scott Smith mentioning hip surgery on his website about a year ago. Todd Eldredge just had hip surgery recently. Alexi and Rudy both had hip surgery (and maybe hip replacements?) years ago.

I really hope Alissa listens to her doctors about recovery and rehab and doesn't try to rush a return to training and competition.

DickButtonFan
05-23-2012, 10:42 AM
Yags had to get a titanium hip, and long afterward could do 3 toes. His skating didn't really seem quite the same afterward, not sure if that was because of the surgery, age, or time put in.

Kwan skated great in 2010, still had her spiral, not sure if she tried other jumps besides the 3 toe. But but that was skating in her 30s, so I would guess Alissa will be able to at least skate somewhat like before.

Plush and Dai have had surgeries, although they were quite different surgeries, it did not prevent them from doing quads beautifully.

Coco
05-23-2012, 12:45 PM
But they were all great jumpers to begin with. I think Alissa has some massive challenges ahead of her.

Mevrouw
05-23-2012, 01:55 PM
Another thing to remember is that this injury is cartilage. If you watch any of the torn labrum repair surgeries online, you'll see that cartilage is white = no direct blood supply, and it also has no nerves. So it can gradually tear and not hurt. The hurting starts late in the tearing when muscles around the torn part either get pulled or have to over-work to try to stabilize the joint, causing muscle fibre tearing and swelling = pain.

One definition:
The labrum is a type of cartilage that surrounds the socket of ball-and-socket joints. A labrum is found in both the shoulder and the hip joint. The labrum forms a ring around the edge of the bony socket of the joint. It helps to provide stability to the joint by deepening the socket, yet unlike bone, it also allows flexibility and motion.

So when the joint becomes unstable, the surrounding muscles try to provide the same stability but they can't so they start to hurt. The injury (tear) is done well before the pain starts. But it explains why AC expected to land the jumps but couldn't: the hip muscles couldn't hold the hip joint stable enough and things slipped without hurting.

For those skaters who have had hip replacements: repeated hard landings on that leg can gradually (or suddenly) cause trauma to the cartilage that lines the acetabulum cup of the pelvis that cushions the ball of the leg bone (femur) and to the femur cartilage. As it wears out, you start getting very painful bone-on-bone and calcium spurs growing around the joint that inflame the muscle tissue. This can also cause small stress fractures in the ball of the hip and lead to bone cysts. The ball would be in danger of full fracture at that point. From experience, the pain is like having a burning piece of charcoal in that hip joint and it hurts even when not weight-bearing. That is quite different from the torn labrum.

After full hip replacement, it's unlikely that a skater could come back to competition level, especially as most patients are forbidden from any activity with repetitive pounding on the joint: running, jogging and certainly landing jumps for the rest of their lives. Any of those could lead to loosening of the prosthesis that goes down into the femur and lead to more surgery with less success of repair.

seabm7
05-23-2012, 02:31 PM
One definition:
The labrum is a type of cartilage that surrounds the socket of ball-and-socket joints. A labrum is found in both the shoulder and the hip joint. The labrum forms a ring around the edge of the bony socket of the joint. It helps to provide stability to the joint by deepening the socket, yet unlike bone, it also allows flexibility and motion.


For those skaters who have had hip replacements: repeated hard landings on that leg can gradually (or suddenly) cause trauma to the cartilage that lines the acetabulum cup of the pelvis that cushions the ball of the leg bone (femur) and to the femur cartilage.

I hope I understood your explanation correctly: Alissa's problem is a labrum tear, which is different from injuries causing hip replacements. So there are some possibilities Alissa can come back to competitions, while Yagudin could not.

Yazmeen
05-23-2012, 02:40 PM
IIRC, Tara's injury was caused by her repetitive jumping, mainly of her triple loop-triple loop combination. Tara was also the poster child for overdoing things, she had this thing about landing multiple (10?) of every jump in a row without missing at every practice. This is not to disparage her obvious talent, but in the end, she was also very lucky to have made it through her senior career and win the big prizes without a major growth spurt and without aggravating her hip more than she did. I wonder what might have happened if that Olympic medal had not been gold and the damage that might have occurred if she had decided to stay in for another 4 years. I have a feeling she wouldn't have made it to the SLC games because of the injury.

I also can't help but wonder if, at least for the ladies, repetitive stress on the joint while still in adolescence (active bony growth plates, joints still maturing) doesn't add to their risk of developing these problems. Yes, I realize Alissa is well past her teen years and this probably doesn't apply to her. In her case, I wonder if the constant reworking of her jump technique didn't add to this problem.

Iceman
05-23-2012, 03:41 PM
wonder why she didn't go to Dr. Phillipon.

Mevrouw
05-23-2012, 04:04 PM
I hope I understood your explanation correctly: Alissa's problem is a labrum tear, which is different from injuries causing hip replacements. So there are some possibilities Alissa can come back to competitions, while Yagudin could not.

As I understand it, yes. The reason it takes quite a while for the labrum tear to heal is the same as why it doesn't hurt: no blood vessels. So healing takes much longer than muscle tissue. And of course, it must be strong before putting full stress on it.