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View Full Version : Czisny to undergo surgery for torn labrum in left hip



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rfisher
05-21-2012, 08:19 PM
Since she didn't have any pain at the time, do you think that any possible difference in her jumping technique that might have been detected would have resulted in her getting the MRI that was needed to diagnose her injury? Or are you thinking that seeing some variation in her jumping might have led to actions that could have prevented the injury? Not sure what help using Dartfish would/could have provided for Alissa.

If she was pain free, no physician would have ordered an MRI. They don't do them just because someones jumps were "off". MRI are not without risk and are only performed when there is real indication such as pain. Since the MRI was not done until last week, I don't think the USFSA should be blamed. They don't have x-ray (or in this case magnetic) vision to look at the internal anatomy of a skater. And unwarrented x-rays or MRI are totally out of the question for anybody much less young athletes, particularly female athletes.

Sylvia
05-21-2012, 08:20 PM
Also in today's IceNetwork article (http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120521&content_id=31886076&vkey=ice_news):

Jason Dungjen, who with wife Yuka Sato coaches Czisny at the Detroit Skating Club, confirmed that his skater did not complain of pain at the world championships.

"Did we know about this in Nice? No, but it may have been a factor," he said. "There is really no point reliving what happened; it's time to move forward.

"Yuka and I always tell [our students], 'If you never give up out there, we will always be there for you.' When I looked at [Czisny's free skate], I saw that she never quit, so I'm there for her, and so is Yuka. Most people would have started just doing doubles, but Alissa kept fighting ... In that respect, I'm very proud of what she did, because she didn't give up. I don't know if I could have done what she did."

Tammi
05-21-2012, 08:26 PM
Oh dear. But other skaters have recovered from this, hopefully?I know a skater who went to Dr. Philippon in Colorado for this surgery and was able to compete the following season. I believe that there have been many advances in how the surgery is done and post-op procedures. If I remember correctly, genetics can be involved as well, so there is a chance the same injury could occur in the other hip in subsequent years.

AragornElessar
05-21-2012, 08:50 PM
So *that's* what happened at the end of the season w/Alissa.

Thanks for letting us know Sylvia and a very speedy recovery to one of my very favourite skaters.

skatingfan5
05-21-2012, 08:58 PM
If she was pain free, no physician would have ordered an MRI. They don't do them just because someones jumps were "off". MRI are not without risk and are only performed when there is real indication such as pain. Since the MRI was not done until last week, I don't think the USFSA should be blamed. They don't have x-ray (or in this case magnetic) vision to look at the internal anatomy of a skater. And unwarrented x-rays or MRI are totally out of the question for anybody much less young athletes, particularly female athletes.Yes, I agree with all of your post. My questions in response to B.Cooper were all to ask "what would be the point?" of having Alissa's jump technique analyzed by someone or something in addition to her current team. Since she didn't exhibit any pain at the time, the tests required to identify injury would not have been done. I guess I could/should have been a bit more direct about my doubting the usefulness of Dartfish/another coach wrt Alissa's situation.

rfisher
05-21-2012, 10:14 PM
Yes, I agree with all of your post. My questions in response to B.Cooper were all to ask "what would be the point?" of having Alissa's jump technique analyzed by someone or something in addition to her current team. Since she didn't exhibit any pain at the time, the tests required to identify injury would not have been done. I guess I could/should have been a bit more direct about my doubting the usefulness of Dartfish/another coach wrt Alissa's situation.

Yes, I highly doubt they would have been helpful. Even if another coach thought there was something off, that still wouldn't have warrented an imaging study. It's always easy for some posters to play Monday morning quarterback. :lol:

I'm glad she's been diagnosed and hope the surgery and her rehab go very well and she's able to skate this season. And if not, onward to next year.

Aussie Willy
05-21-2012, 10:58 PM
But fans are never going to accept that sometimes sh*t happens. It's called life.
Yep this point exactly! After some of the things that have been written about Alissa I hope people are eating their words.

Wishing her all the best for a speedy recovery.

Sasha'sSpins
05-21-2012, 11:09 PM
Sigh... I wish Czisny speedy recovery.

I cant help but be frustrated at USFSA. Two years in a row they sent an injured lady to worlds. By now it should be clear: US Nationals performance is not an indicator of how a skater will do two months later or a year later (eg jgp). If Usfsa keeps letting nationals decide all assignments without some basic monitoring then I am afraid it is harder to turn the ladies program around. A skater can be fine at nationals and has trouble with triples by March. Athletes are optimistic by nature, and they will try to compete unless their legs are broken. That is whysomeone else's judgement may be more objective than the skater in question.

For Czisny I hope she will rebounce and skate better next season.

ITA. Entire post.

This is very sad news about Alissa. I wish her a full recovery.

julianaqtpi
05-21-2012, 11:15 PM
Agreed. this has happened TWO years in a row now. If this doesn't spark changes to selection/monitoring procedures, I don't know what will.

And the fact that a US lady has to skate the qualifying round next year at Worlds...
I don't know exactly how it works, but my guess is we'd have to have two top 5 finishes to get the third spot back for 2014 season. I really hope they do monitor the skaters more closely, it would really help and would hopefully prevent this from happening again.

smarts1
05-21-2012, 11:15 PM
It's unfortunate that she may have been injured at Worlds, but I don't think it was a known fact or cover up like the Rachael Flatt situation. They knew, she was diagnosed, and still competed. AZ would have done better if Cziney pulled out, obviously, but I don't know if she would have been good enough to get us three spots. Gracie or Zhang would of given us a much better chance, but that would have been impossible for the US to do without an uproar. Wasn't Gao the second alternate?

Zhang was the second alternate. And she would have been sent ONLY if both Ashley and Alissa pulled out. Agnes wouldn't have been much of an improvement of a replacement either.

smarts1
05-21-2012, 11:27 PM
And the fact that a US lady has to skate the qualifying round next year at Worlds...
I don't know exactly how it works, but my guess is we'd have to have two top 5 finishes to get the third spot back for 2014 season. I really hope they do monitor the skaters more closely, it would really help and would hopefully prevent this from happening again.

The addition of the placements for two skaters can't be more than 13 in order to receive three spots.

Ziggy
05-21-2012, 11:34 PM
Czisny has put plans to choreograph a new free skate with Marina Zoueva on hold

Noooooooooooooooo whyyyyyy. :(

(Obv I am referring to the Zoueva part, not to the putting on hold part :P)

operagirl
05-21-2012, 11:41 PM
She wasn't falling all over the place during warm ups at worlds. Or during her practices.

I wish her a speedy recovery, but I still think about 80% of this is in her head.

B.Cooper
05-22-2012, 12:45 AM
Yes, I highly doubt they would have been helpful. Even if another coach thought there was something off, that still wouldn't have warrented an imaging study. It's always easy for some posters to play Monday morning quarterback. :lol:

I'm glad she's been diagnosed and hope the surgery and her rehab go very well and she's able to skate this season. And if not, onward to next year.

To clarify what I had said earlier...I wasn't advocating an MRI. What I had suggested was that perhaps video analysis of her jumps be done, or at the very least, some sort of video download to USFS folks so that they could look at her programs. I can't think that Alissa was landing jumps 90% of the time at home during practice again, taking into consideration her Challenge Cup performance, and perhaps her practices at home in Detroit. I am not pointing fingers here. What I am suggesting is that monitoring be done differently (or in addition to on-site monitoring), by supplying daily downloads of programs....use the technology we have available. All I am suggesting is that perhaps, the tear has been something that has occurred over time, and perhaps, Alissa was modifying her jumps because something just felt 'weird'...or not normal....and that led to her comment in the post Worlds event that she "did not know what happened"...that she thought she had her legs under her. If the videos were available post-Nationals on through end of March, that perhaps may give them a inkling as to if she had been modifying her technique....and if so, then the mental side of the sport becomes a much greater issue, and as we have observed, that is problematic for Alissa.

This is more of finding a tool to help the athletes stay healthy/compete healthy.

agalisgv
05-22-2012, 01:17 AM
This is more of finding a tool to help the athletes stay healthy/compete healthy. I think one issue would be you would need a skater to be pretty consistent for such methods to work, and many skaters aren't that.

I think the sad thing is if this injury began developing back during the GP series and was responsible for Czisny's less than stellar performances throughout the season, it means her coaches cannot tell the difference between her regular skating and her skating injured. If someone is prone to that level of inconsistency, I don't know that video-monitoring would be of much help.

Anyhow, I hope she recovers. I suspect, though, this will likely be a career-ender.