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View Full Version : Czisny to undergo surgery for torn labrum in left hip



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AliasJohnDoe
05-30-2012, 07:38 PM
Yeah, I am also enough of a skeptic not to buy her conveniently exculpatory story either. She may not have been feeling a debilitating pain, but she had to know something felt off (especially if it was visibly affecting her landings as you described). Even more so, her coaches should have noticed the change in her technique and looked into it.

It's kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't for the coaches. If they didn't notice a change in their skater that was obvious to other observers, then they are inept coaches. If they did notice and opted to ignore it until after Worlds for fear of what they'd find, then they are irresponsible coaches. Which would you rather admit to?

Who were these "other observers" you mentioned? People I've talked to who seen some of her practices said she was skating well. Had "some" clean run-throughs of her programs and was hitting the 2a/3t. They didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.

minignome
05-30-2012, 07:51 PM
If you exclude the champions, that leaves at most 8. If any of them seems unable to hit their routines, for whatever reason, then look a the first alternate and make a decision which to send.

So, what happens if the first alternate bombs? Do we then roast the USFS on a spit with the "skater x wasn't hurt THAT bad" they could have performed and gotten our three spots back?

What is the OBJECTIVE criteria for replacing a skater? How many bad practices/routines are they allowed? What defines "bad"? How many times can they splat on the ice? How many turning triples into doubles?

How does this entity determine who is healthy enough for competition without violating a ton of patient confidentiality restrictions?

How do you prevent this alternative from becoming a politic fest?

gkelly
05-30-2012, 07:51 PM
No it isn't. When you are talking about folks put on the World team,

This was the context:


I don't see it as entirely outside their current process. They already do it for skaters with injury byes, so there is a procedure in place. All they need to do is extend the concept to a larger group of skaters (like everyone, or maybe anyone other than the champions).

If you meant "everyone on the World team" then you needed to say "everyone on the World team."

Otherwise "a larger group of skaters (like everyone, or maybe anyone other than the champions)" could refer to a much larger group of skaters.

kwanfan1818
05-30-2012, 07:53 PM
I've always found it interesting that when other countries' test skates are published to YouTube, very often the skater doesn't look spectacular, but still goes to Worlds. For example, this year, Ksenia Makarova, and that's in a country where the Federation seems to do as it pleases, and everyone isn't lawyered up.

B.Cooper
05-30-2012, 09:33 PM
How will monitoring help the athlete? What is the priority/focus of monitoring? Is it (and in no specific order)...
a. demonstration of health of the athlete, physically and mentally
b. is it the athlete demonstrating the ability to compete under high pressure situations, by performing the scripted actions or skills (programs in the case of skaters) with accuracy and consistency during peak season or in a defined time frame? A baseball analogy would be if a pitcher has an ERA over 7, he would most likely be pulled from the starting rotation during the World Series.
c. in the case of skating, can the athlete demonstrate a "performance level" to the programs...ie the "2nd mark".
d. providing valuable feedback to the athlete/coach as to the competition readiness of the athlete, as well as a documented/time stamped time line as to achieving milestones during the peak competitive season? Going back to baseball...why would a pitcher add a curve ball, for example, to his pitching repetoire, if he could only get it across the plate 20% of the time? Why would a skater add a high risk element to a program, especially during the championship portion of the season, if they have not been able to perform it during the early part of the competitive season with reasonable (60-70%) success rate. I would have to question the coaching at that point. It is a risk, both physically and mentally for the athlete.

Posts have been made about Alyssa doing 2A-3T or 3-3 combos in practice after Nationals/at 4CC. Would those efforts have contributed to an already unstable hip? Perhaps. Reviewing the videos of her efforts over this past season...there seemed to be an instability to her jumps/jump technique that progressively worsened as time went by. Again, hard to know if it was due to changes in technique that Jason and Yuka were working on with Alyssa, or if she was compensating in her technique for something that was undiagnosed but "bothersome" on some level, concious or not.

Lots to think about. We can all be Monday morning quarterbacks. But, from my perspective, something in how USFS functions needs to change in terms of how the athletes are monitored, and perhaps how the athlete is training...as their health is of paramount importance. Thinking back to the last few seasons, esp with US women, just to name a few that had to take significant time off the ice to heal ...Nagasu had stress fracture(s) in her foot, Hicks broke her leg, Flatt had a stress fracture in her leg, and now Alyssa's hip. One has to question if it is all worth it.

Lacey
05-30-2012, 09:46 PM
It was reported she was not doing her usual spins in shows after Worlds.



I never heard this.

victoriaheidi
05-30-2012, 10:07 PM
Yeah, I am also enough of a skeptic not to buy her conveniently exculpatory story either. She may not have been feeling a debilitating pain, but she had to know something felt off (especially if it was visibly affecting her landings as you described). Even more so, her coaches should have noticed the change in her technique and looked into it.

It's kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't for the coaches. If they didn't notice a change in their skater that was obvious to other observers, then they are inept coaches. If they did notice and opted to ignore it until after Worlds for fear of what they'd find, then they are irresponsible coaches. Which would you rather admit to?

It's hard. I have a hard time believing that there was literally nothing one day, she bombed at Worlds and still assumed nothing was wrong, and nothing was wrong for a few weeks and then she suddenly felt pain and got an MRI. I assume she had a little pain and assumed it was nothing.

This sounds wrong, but it would be worse to think that nothing was wrong and she couldn't even point to anything to explain Worlds.

I think it's hard and I admit that it's tough to figure out what kind of monitoring would best serve the athletes, but Nationals-->Worlds is 2 whole months (minimum), which is a decent amount of time in the skating world (if we want to believe that the "season" for senior int'l competitors is late September/early October to late March/early April, in which case 2 months is 1/3 of the skating season!). There should be some spot check/verification beyond just the coach/skater rubber-stamping things, and it shouldn't mean MRIs for everyone or whatever. I liked the time-verified video idea. Or perhaps just creating a more "open" environment where disclosing an injury isn't the end of the universe or whatever.

I almost think that the best solution is to not assign Worlds positions immediately following the free skate at Nationals (save for champions). Give it some time, since the roster for Worlds is for sure not locked in January.

The only comps that need to be assigned at Nationals and no later are 4CCs and the Olympics.

I'm not sure what exactly I think they should do. Please don't jump all over me for not having a fully-formed plan, complete with the financial implications for following it. I just think the US needs to realize that the system they're using just isn't working anymore, especially when many use the time between Nats and Worlds as a chance to try to up their technical ante, not always for the best.

blancanieves
05-30-2012, 10:42 PM
So, what happens if the first alternate bombs? Do we then roast the USFS on a spit with the "skater x wasn't hurt THAT bad" they could have performed and gotten our three spots back?

What is the OBJECTIVE criteria for replacing a skater? How many bad practices/routines are they allowed? What defines "bad"? How many times can they splat on the ice? How many turning triples into doubles?

How does this entity determine who is healthy enough for competition without violating a ton of patient confidentiality restrictions?

How do you prevent this alternative from becoming a politic fest?

I agree. There are no absolute guarantees when it comes to participating in an athletic endeavor. Things can always go one of two ways on any given day. There is a certain amount of cumulative information that can be gathered from an athlete's performances throughout the season and the general state of their health as a meet approaches, but then you have to invest whatever decision you make with a certain amount of trust. There are no crystal balls, only informed guesses at best. And I think knowing they've earned a spot to represent their country gives the athletes added confidence and motivation as they prepare for their performances.

RD
05-30-2012, 10:42 PM
^ It could very well take 2-3 Oly cycles with no lady medalists or serious contenders for something to happen...

Skittl1321
05-30-2012, 10:46 PM
I never heard this.

I actually thought it was in this thread... (it was- post 137)
The icenetwork article does mention to spins and spirals becoming painful.

If you watch this program, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECpjewXRbDQ she doesn't do a layback. Maybe the program doesn't have one, but it is pretty typical of her to do a layback. The program in general is pretty underwhelming (eh, awful, and I'm a big fan.) She doesn't do any really impressive spirals either. Almost all of her flexibility moves avoid the left leg.

demetriosj
05-30-2012, 10:46 PM
I think she's trying to say that in 2014, two golds will be given out for the ladies just like in Salt Lake for the pairs. Let's see if this prediction comes true :cool:

:lol:

hahahahaha That's funny!

Iceman
05-30-2012, 10:59 PM
deleted

MacMadame
05-31-2012, 01:48 AM
In one sense figures, at the elite level, did help to prevent injuries. By putting in the hours and hours and hours it took to be able to perform high-level figures with the incredible precision required, it gave skaters the ability to make minute, tiny adjustments and therefore they didn't need to do as many reps of the jumps. They could make corrections much more quickly rather than having to do so much via trial and error.
But it didn't make their muscles stronger as the original poster suggested and as I was responding to. ;)


This sounds wrong, but it would be worse to think that nothing was wrong and she couldn't even point to anything to explain Worlds.

Which is exactly what happened. Have you all forgotten her interview after worlds when she said she had no idea why she couldn't land her jumps, how she went up into them fully expecting to land them?

This is exactly how this particular injury works in fact. You don't feel pain and nothing is wrong but the damage is accumulating. Then you still don't feel pain but something is now wrong, but because there is no pain you experience it only as not being able to do things you used to do. Then it gets even worse and there is now pain along with something wrong and so you go get it checked out and then you find you've been injured all along and just didn't know it.

Which is exactly what we saw happen with Alissa.

victoriaheidi
05-31-2012, 02:09 AM
Which is exactly what happened. Have you all forgotten her interview after worlds when she said she had no idea why she couldn't land her jumps, how she went up into them fully expecting to land them?

This is exactly how this particular injury works in fact. You don't feel pain and nothing is wrong but the damage is accumulating. Then you still don't feel pain but something is now wrong, but because there is no pain you experience it only as not being able to do things you used to do. Then it gets even worse and there is now pain along with something wrong and so you go get it checked out and then you find you've been injured all along and just didn't know it.

Which is exactly what we saw happen with Alissa.

No, you misunderstood my comment. :) I said that it's better for her to have something to point to than to dwell on "not knowing." She didn't know, she found out, now she knows. You basically just reiterated my point.

carriemarie
05-31-2012, 02:13 AM
You asked why not support a skater with that much potential who roots for the US. Which implied that posters should generally care about the US succeeding or at least that US posters should.




Please feel free to explain what on earth this has to do with me. I did not twist your words, I've just explained why I felt that what you said implied what I responded to. I don't see how I quoted anything other than the quote that I actually responded to. And I REALLY don't see where I acted like I was the ultimate authority on skating. I never claimed to be anything more than a fan. And if you have such a problem with the quality of posters on this board, perhaps you should find one that is more up to your standards. I come here because I like to discuss figure skating with fans and experts and because the people on this board who aren't experts often have plenty of interesting opinions and insights and are, in fact, often experts in something useful whether or not that is skating.

To your first point, I think US fans should root for skaters regardless of whether they like them or not. I don't think anyone should be 'rooted' against regardless of their country. I don't hope Carolina or Mao or whoever fall on their faces. I just don't prefer them.

To your second point, I did not mean to specifically single you out or was necessarily directed at you. It was directed at many posters, but I didn't reply to every single poster. It was not my intention to make it seem that way. My apologies. I do think that on a skating fan page skaters should be supported and not hated on regardless of nationality. The Gracie topic should die, but people keep responding. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but honestly, it's a messageboard. We aren't curing cancer. Please EVERYONE drop Gracie and I will do the same unless it is a post directed for her.