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View Full Version : Czisny to undergo surgery for torn labrum in left hip



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skatingfan5
05-21-2012, 06:34 PM
But, what if more sets of eyes had been watching, perhaps someone like Christy Krall who does Dartfish....she might have noticed something in the way Alissa was jumping. Just a thought....Since she didn't have any pain at the time, do you think that any possible difference in her jumping technique that might have been detected would have resulted in her getting the MRI that was needed to diagnose her injury? Or are you thinking that seeing some variation in her jumping might have led to actions that could have prevented the injury? Not sure what help using Dartfish would/could have provided for Alissa.

jlai
05-21-2012, 06:44 PM
Agreed. this has happened TWO years in a row now. If this doesn't spark changes to selection/monitoring procedures, I don't know what will.

I dont think anythong will be done. Every debate involving skaters' injury is heated and divisive and I dont see discussion on monitoring being separated from individual situations that people get emotional about.

Anyway, now that we know this is an injury and not a confidence issue,that means it is likely she can skate well again when healthy, which is a good thing.

IceAlisa
05-21-2012, 06:45 PM
Part of me is relieved there is a very good explanation for what happened at Worlds and Nats, and part of me is :( that she is injured. Speedy recovery, Alissa! :cheer2:

carriemarie
05-21-2012, 06:46 PM
Would the poor performance at the DSC send off show in December or poor practices that were alluded to prior to US Nationals or prior/during Worlds have been an indication? Would more strict monitoring be acceptable? My disappointment is with USFS at this point as the also need to do their due diligence with their athletes, and accept some responsiblity for the athletes' training, health and well being. What is the acutal mechanism that the elite performance group at USFS uses to routinely monitor their athletes? Is it the coaches who provide the daily feedback as the athletes prepare for the post-National events? Are videos provided on a weekly basis to USFS officials to review in prep for 4CC/Worlds/Olympics, etc....each person sees things differently, and perhaps Jason/Yuka were thinking that Alissa was nervous for Worlds based on the expectations, and that was just her MO before big competitions. But, what if more sets of eyes had been watching, perhaps someone like Christy Krall who does Dartfish....she might have noticed something in the way Alissa was jumping. Just a thought....



Perhaps monitoring is a good idea, and I sincerely respect your points because they are valid, but they way they choose their teams for Worlds, Olympics, etc. is such a time honored tradition and USFSA is so set in it's ways that I don't see the process changing soon. It's too progressive for them, and IMO Alissa wasn't horrible at Nationals and I am not sure Zhang or Agnes would have secured the spots needed. I am not saying Alissa isn't notorious for her inconsistency, but unless an injury was known there wasn't a reason to pull her. Michelle Kwan, for example, was a disaster before 1998 Nationals (because of various problems) and I know this from training with her and pulled it together. Oksana was injured at the Olympics and pulled it off (to my dismay and disagreement of results). The bottom line is Alissa earned her spot rightfully under the USFSA rules and she gets to go to Worlds. The USFSA is getting more progressive (ie Ricky Dornbush at 4CC-which ended up being a poor decision), so why would they change the system when the results of them changing things up have been poor thus far? WTT was a good start with Gracie, but it's still a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation right now.

Sylvia
05-21-2012, 06:51 PM
AZ would have done better if Cziney pulled out, obviously, but I don't know if she would have been good enough to get us three spots. Gracie or Zhang would of given us a much better chance, but that would have been impossible for the US to do without an uproar. Wasn't Gao the second alternate?
Agnes Zawadzki was the 1st alternate to 2012 Worlds, Caroline Zhang was the 2nd alternate, and Mirai Nagasu was the 3rd alternate.

B.Cooper
05-21-2012, 06:52 PM
Since she didn't have any pain at the time, do you think that any possible difference in her jumping technique that might have been detected would have resulted in her getting the MRI that was needed to diagnose her injury? Or are you thinking that seeing some variation in her jumping might have led to actions that could have prevented the injury? Not sure what help using Dartfish would/could have provided for Alissa.

Dartfish, or routine video review of jumps might have shown that she was having trouble(s) with the technique....so, then you assess, why is there so much inconsistency in an element that had been routine weeks prior. From the DSC send-off, Alissa stuggled to land jumps back in December. I am not saying that she knew that there was pain in the hip...all I am saying is that she was more inconsistent in her jumps/technique than in years past. Do Jason and Yuka track those sorts of numbers on a daily basis for their skaters? I have no idea. Most coaches won't allow an athlete to include a skill in a performance/program if they are doing it successfully less than 70% of the time. What I am wondering, is if they had noticed a statistically significant decrease in her ability to land the jumps prior to the SGPF....and, to use video review, ie Dartfish, they may have noticed a chance in technique, that was due to her body compensating for the injury to the labrum...not necessarily pain, but changes in body alignment (and hence, lack of rotation, lack of height from the vault, etc). Alissa may have not felt any pain, but in the back of her mind, was she questioning why she was having less success landing her jumps. Again, another set of eyes may have seen something Alissa/Jason/Yuka did not. Trying to help find answers...

Polymer Bob
05-21-2012, 06:53 PM
I hope Alissa recovers in time to skate at least part of next season. :(

PDilemma
05-21-2012, 06:54 PM
Intense monitoring would cost money. Where is that going to come from? Who is going to conduct this monitoring? What if they monitor an athlete intensely and they still crash and burn at Worlds? Then do we have to go after the monitors?

And unless USFSA is going to cough up the money, every athlete having a slump can't pay for an MRI just to be sure.

But fans are never going to accept that sometimes sh*t happens. It's called life.

RD
05-21-2012, 06:58 PM
I dont think anythong will be done. Every debate involving skaters' injury is heated and divisive and I dont see discussion on monitoring being separated from individual situations that people get emotional about.

It's unfortunate, really.

Vash01
05-21-2012, 06:59 PM
Poor girl. No wonder she was struggling so much with the jumps. I hope all goes well.

carriemarie
05-21-2012, 07:06 PM
Agnes Zawadzki was the 1st alternate to 2012 Worlds, Caroline Zhang was the 2nd alternate, and Mirai Nagasu was the 3rd alternate.

Duh! I don't know why I thought Gao was in the mix going on National placements. (Aside for Nagasu). I forget placements at Nationals so quickly after being there so many years.

pingu
05-21-2012, 07:08 PM
Would the poor performance at the DSC send off show in December or poor practices that were alluded to prior to US Nationals or prior/during Worlds have been an indication? Would more strict monitoring be acceptable? My disappointment is with USFS at this point as the also need to do their due diligence with their athletes, and accept some responsiblity for the athletes' training, health and well being. What is the acutal mechanism that the elite performance group at USFS uses to routinely monitor their athletes? Is it the coaches who provide the daily feedback as the athletes prepare for the post-National events? Are videos provided on a weekly basis to USFS officials to review in prep for 4CC/Worlds/Olympics, etc....each person sees things differently, and perhaps Jason/Yuka were thinking that Alissa was nervous for Worlds based on the expectations, and that was just her MO before big competitions. But, what if more sets of eyes had been watching, perhaps someone like Christy Krall who does Dartfish....she might have noticed something in the way Alissa was jumping. Just a thought....

I doubt that this kind of injury can be prevented, unless you don't do an MRI an x-ray montlhy on every single skater/dancer/hockey player etc etc.
This injury doesn't cause a changement in the jump technique. It is caused by the movement you repeat multiple times a day, and according to the anatomy of your hip you could have problems or you couldn't. The anatomy of Alissa's hip and the skating movement she does caused this injury.

VALuvsMKwan
05-21-2012, 07:09 PM
(Non-paragraphed mass edited) Trying to help find answers...


Intense monitoring would cost money. Where is that going to come from? Who is going to conduct this monitoring? What if they monitor an athlete intensely and they still crash and burn at Worlds? Then do we have to go after the monitors?

And unless USFSA is going to cough up the money, every athlete having a slump can't pay for an MRI just to be sure.

But fans are never going to accept that sometimes sh*t happens. It's called life.

Word to PDilemma (particularly last sentence).

Best wishes to Alissa on healing and then competing as little or as much as SHE wants to, and can, in the future.

Mayra
05-21-2012, 07:13 PM
Isn't this the same type of surgery MK had? I hope Alissa's recovery goes as planned.

Michelle and Tara both.

Has anyone successfully come back from this kind of of injury?

Good luck to her and here's hoping for a full recovery.

IceAlisa
05-21-2012, 07:15 PM
Has anyone successfully come back from this kind of of injury?


Great question. However, I think in both MK and Tara's cases they were retiring anyway.