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View Full Version : Czisny to undergo surgery for torn labrum in left hip



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centerstage01
05-27-2012, 08:00 AM
USFS should not only monitor every skater by attending all of their practices and making detailed analysis of the amount of jumps that they land but they should also have the monitored athletes do full medical check-ups (including MRI scans OBVIOUSLY) on a weekly basis.

Who, exactly, will be paying for these expensive procedures? I don't know any insurance that would allow multiple MRI scans without a life-threatening reason. And even without those tests, all the others for every ache and twinge would really rack up the bills. Most skaters are already broke as it is.

skateboy
05-27-2012, 09:11 AM
Who, exactly, will be paying for these expensive procedures? I don't know any insurance that would allow multiple MRI scans without a life-threatening reason. And even without those tests, all the others for every ache and twinge would really rack up the bills. Most skaters are already broke as it is.

Pretty sure Ziggy was being intentionally sarcastic here. :)

UGG
05-27-2012, 01:03 PM
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Good question!! Probably because she does seem different. She already seems menally stronger then the senior girls. She competed against the World Champion, World silver medalist and World Bronze medalist and did very well at the WTT. I don't think Alissa (even if she didn't have her injury) would have done that well as she has always been really inconsistent. Mirai just looks like she has lost the will to skate. I think some of these people just don't want some young girl to be the one that does better then these two.

I don't think its that. I think everyone is just tired of hype that surrounds a skater that has done well at jr worlds as "the next big thing". It's been going on since 2006 and we have not lad a lady on the world podium nor have we been able to earn the three spots.

When Mirai, Caroline, and Rachel swept the Jr worlds podium, they were "supposed" to be the next Kwan, Cohen, and Hugues trio.

It even goes further back- look at Sasha Cohen- who was supposed to be the next great ladies skater to dethrone Kwan, win multiple world championshios and the Olympics, and land a quad. All that hype and although she had a great career and cemented her place in figure skating history as one of the most memorable american ladies skaters...none of that happened. Sasha hype was so outrageous that her career which includes being a national champion, two time Olympian, winning the Olympic silver medal, 3 world medals, and GPF champion is seemed as a "failure". I blame that on all that crazy hype because in reality, she had a GREAT career and changed ladies skating in some ways.

I think people are just tired of hype and want to see results before jumping on any bandwagons. That is all. I am excited to see Gracie next year though to see what she can do but I am not counting on her to save skating or be the next Michelle Kwan.

AlisonS
05-27-2012, 03:36 PM
I still think a yearly MRI of elite skaters would not be out of place to detect potential injury to the hip region regardless of whether they are scheduled to go to Worlds or not. As a diabetic, it is the recommended protocol in the US to have a thallium stress test every other year which involves 2 MRIs to the chest. There are a lot more diabetics than there are elite skaters and people are not dropping dead from following this recommended procedure. The main danger of an MRI (and you do not have to take my word for it, google it yourself) is if you have any kind of metal screw or implant in your body which could heat up during the procedure, in which case you should not have one. But there has been enough publicity around Tara, Michelle and now Alissa that these elite skaters and their coaches should know to look for this and the bottom line is it is up to them to look after themselves.

eurodance2001
05-27-2012, 03:51 PM
USFS should not only monitor every skater by attending all of their practices and making detailed analysis of the amount of jumps that they land but they should also have the monitored athletes do full medical check-ups (including MRI scans OBVIOUSLY) on a weekly basis.

This is very realistic and would be a very clever way of managing USFS' resources.

You forgot the monthly enemas administered by USFSA.. They have to ensure they know the bowel movement cycle of all National team members..

rfisher
05-27-2012, 04:05 PM
I still think a yearly MRI of elite skaters would not be out of place to detect potential injury to the hip region regardless of whether they are scheduled to go to Worlds or not. As a diabetic, it is the recommended protocol in the US to have a thallium stress test every other year which involves 2 MRIs to the chest. There are a lot more diabetics than there are elite skaters and people are not dropping dead from following this recommended procedure. The main danger of an MRI (and you do not have to take my word for it, google it yourself) is if you have any kind of metal screw or implant in your body which could heat up during the procedure, in which case you should not have one. But there has been enough publicity around Tara, Michelle and now Alissa that these elite skaters and their coaches should know to look for this and the bottom line is it is up to them to look after themselves.

Are you seriously comparing a pathologic protocol to asking for an non-medically warranted imaging procedure? I teach MRI technology and am certified in the procedure by the ARRT. MRI of the chest for some diabetics having thallium stress tests is medically warranted and follows evidence based practice. MRI's just because are not. Moreover, MRI which have contrast media injected have a significant risk factor and I repeat AND we are not certain they are risk free for long term effects. Just this year a study was done that indicates the heat produced by sonography is having detrimental effects. We're not certain about the long term effects of MRI because they haven't been around long enough to know. We've found to our detriment that CT exams of the brain done on children under the age of 5 have produced cognitive disorders 15-20 years later. There is a reason these types of tests are NEVER ordered without considering risk vs. benefit. There is always a risk and the benefit to make a diagnosis that will assist a surgeon or other clinician make a medical decision must be considered. You should have read a bit further in your google search.

aftershocks
05-27-2012, 04:26 PM
You forgot the monthly enemas administered by USFSA.. They have to ensure they know the bowel movement cycle of all National team members..

^^ PML :rofl: Thanks to those with a sense of the ridiculous, and a sense of humor.

For those without:

As much as I have criticized USFS, I mean really!!?! Why not think of some solutions guys to correct challenges in your own lives. USFS are far from miracleworkers and neither do they have x-ray vision. And please FGS, lay off Rachael Flatt @ Worlds 2011 -- over and done with and no need to reference that situation every chance you get. I commend Rachael for taking what happened and her error in judgment in stride, holding her head high and getting on with the goals she set for herself in skating and in life. I wish her well at Stanford. Rachael 2011 Worlds has absolutely nothing to do with Alissa 2012 Worlds (try as some might to create similarity scenarios).

RD
05-27-2012, 04:38 PM
Even taking away the cost constraint, I'm not sure what is being suggested is really feasible.

Monitoring should be limited to skater performance only. Actually, whether or not a skater is potentially injured in this case isn't the issue here. The real point is, are they fit and ready enough to compete? After all, some skaters can compete with certain injuries and be fine...others can't.

I'm not even convinced Czisny's meltdown at Worlds can be COMPLETELY blamed on this injury (after all, she's done performances like this before in good health)...but of course, not like the warning signs weren't present beforehand. Injured or not, the fact that she was at worlds especially after CC and recent practices is, to me, questionable at best. Nevermind that the alternate most likely wouldn't have been a significant improvement anyway...

aftershocks
05-27-2012, 04:52 PM
The entire structure of ISU figure skating is flawed at best. USFS will always be damned if they do, damned if they don't under the current antiquated structure and selection process. Politics too are inevitable ... but I simply hope past experience guides USFS to try and be equitable to all skaters and eliminate overt favoritism as much as possible in their approach.

At this point, the USFS tradition of selection to World team based upon Nationals results is something that will likely stand, and under the current system, I don't disagree.

I just feel in general it is a shame that under ISU current structure, the determination of who competes at Worlds is so politically-based (i.e., country-based) and not fully based on the actual skill level and talent of individual skaters, regardless of country affiliation.

As far as Alissa's season, with the type of injury she has, it was obviously difficult to detect and slow in progression. Again, if you read about the labral tear, what is hard to understand about the fact Alissa did not necessarily feel pain, but that the nature and progression of the injury is what apparently caused her to be incapable of landing jumps? Of course Alissa's past problems with nerves and confidence on her jumps make it easy for those who want easy answers to succumb to erroneous conclusions.

Susan M
05-27-2012, 06:05 PM
Perhaps monitoring is a good idea, and I sincerely respect your points because they are valid, but they way they choose their teams for Worlds, Olympics, etc. is such a time honored tradition and USFSA is so set in it's ways that I don't see the process changing soon.

I don't see it as entirely outside their current process. They already do it for skaters with injury byes, so there is a procedure in place. All they need to do is extend the concept to a larger group of skaters (like everyone, or maybe anyone other than the champions).

The current process is obviously not working, so they need to do something to make sure they really are sending the strongest team. In fact, the USFS really needs to occasionally diverge from the Nationals placements if for no other reason than to preserve the premise that Nationals is not the Olympic Trials in those years. (USOC gets to sell the TV rights to Olympic trials, not the USFS.)


Monitoring should be limited to skater performance only. Actually, whether or not a skater is potentially injured in this case isn't the issue here. The real point is, are they fit and ready enough to compete?

ITA. The real issue is predicting how well a skater is likely to perform at Worlds, based on best and most recent information available. Whether it is a medical issue or technical problem, you don't have to look far to realize the stakes are now too high for anyone to expect a skater to take him or herself off the team short of a totally obvious injury.

aftershocks
05-27-2012, 06:26 PM
I think it is impossible to "predict how well a skater is likely to perform at Worlds."

As far as overall monitoring of athletes and tweaking of selection processes, if USFS feels any reasonable changes are in the best interest of U.S. skating, and not counterproductive, perhaps changes will be made, but not of the caliber some are advocating for in this thread!

Sparks
05-27-2012, 06:33 PM
Someone please rep this for me.

Done.

leigh466
05-27-2012, 06:34 PM
Uh, yeah, some folks on here are not only ridiculous, but psychologically unstable in their entitlement mentality.

gkelly
05-27-2012, 06:38 PM
I don't see it as entirely outside their current process. They already do it for skaters with injury byes, so there is a procedure in place. All they need to do is extend the concept to a larger group of skaters (like everyone, or maybe anyone other than the champions).

"Everyone" is an awfully large group. :D

Maybe everyone in the international selection pool?

Or do you mean just everyone on the world team? That would still be cost-prohibitive, but at least there would be a reason for monitoring those particular skaters.

To save the costs of travel for the skaters and/or monitors, maybe the simplest way would be to have skaters send the committee a date-verified video of a long program runthrough (or both short and long) from a single camera angle with no cuts, at some agreed-upon date(s) before the last point at which it would be possible to substitute an alternate.

That wouldn't tell you how the skater has been doing on average, or how many runthroughs they had to skate for video that day to get the cleanest one with the most difficulty. But it would tell you that at some point on that day the skater was able to skate a long program runthrough that might not be as strong as the one that earned them their spot on the world team but would be a respectable performance to put out at Worlds.

leafygreens
05-27-2012, 06:44 PM
No way should the US be monitoring skaters any more than they already are. This is not the Soviet Union. An MRI to clearly see a labrum tear is done with dye and costs $7,000. Who is going to pay for this? What are the risks of excessive scans to the body? Athletes are individual human beings and should never be subject to that kind of scrutiny. The USFS can guide them, but does not control them.

The U.S. is going through a slump right now, we have no Kween, we have no savior. People need to stop freaking out and trying to micro-manage. Also, stop putting all the pressure on Gracie Gold because she might very well implode herself.

As someone with experience in this kind of surgery, I'm not convinced that Alissa will make it back in time for NHK. The recovery is extremely precarious and painful. This kind of injury and surgery is not something that you can just bounce back from, but it would be great if she could somehow do it.