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View Full Version : Czisny to undergo surgery for torn labrum in left hip



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Jammers
05-25-2012, 05:52 PM
Right now, Wagner seems our best hope for Nationals/Worlds next year. I think Zhang also has a really strong chance at being on the World team. I think of all the ladies they have the most "want it, will work my tush off to get it" mentality right now.

Re: Gold: we'll see, she is terrific, and I can possibly see her on the podium, but top 2, not so much. PCS is the issue here, will be very interesting to see what she does over the summer, how she improves.

Gracie doesn't need much more to beat Caroline in my opinion. Her scores at the WTT show that the judges already think highly of her and she has some of the toughest combo jumps in the World already and she's showed that she is consistent. Some smoothing out of her skating and she's in the top 2 if she keeps landing her jumps which most of the Senior US girls can't seem to do.

Cheylana
05-25-2012, 06:31 PM
We'll have to disagree then. CAN they score well enough to bring in 3 spots? Of course, they can. But can they be counted upon to do so? No, they haven't demonstrated that kind of consistency.
What slays me is that Leonova and Makarova are no more talented (or, arguably, consistent) than the US ladies, yet they've delivered three spots for Russia the last couple of years. Why have they been able to deliver and not the US?

RD
05-25-2012, 06:33 PM
What slays me is that Leonova and Makarova are no more talented (or, arguably, consistent) than the US ladies, yet they've delivered three spots for Russia the last couple of years. Why have they been able to deliver and not the US?

Because they didn't show up at Worlds injured.

This year, Russia had Marakova do a test skate if I'm not mistaken.

Cheylana
05-25-2012, 06:36 PM
Heck, even Italy has three spots for next year. Italy! Hardly a bastion of Kwans and Cohens.

Dilng
05-25-2012, 06:41 PM
I'm not buying the whole "Oh, I didn't know I was injured" bit at all. Yes, I read the posts explaining that you don't feel the pain till later. But the timing of it all is just a liiiiiiittle too convenient. I'm thinking she knew damn well she was injured and sat on the information for the appropriate amount of time to avoid ending up like Rachael. Flame away.

ITA!!! When she struggled at her competition prior to Worlds, I would think that she would have questioned why she didn't land any jumps. It wasn't like it was a major competition such as Nationals or Worlds. I wouldn't think she would have been really nervous yet she couldn't land a jump. A person would just instinctively know something wasn't right.

Dilng
05-25-2012, 06:45 PM
Gracie doesn't need much more to beat Caroline in my opinion. Her scores at the WTT show that the judges already think highly of her and she has some of the toughest combo jumps in the World already and she's showed that she is consistent. Some smoothing out of her skating and she's in the top 2 if she keeps landing her jumps which most of the Senior US girls can't seem to do.

ITA!!! I think she will be able to handle the top two easily.

RD
05-25-2012, 06:59 PM
Totally agree. & Phil Hersh just goes right along with this baloney, no real, hard questions asked.....

It's not fair to Flatt IMHO if he doesn't at least try to dig deeper and not just take Czisny's word for it. But we know he's not going to do that. Unless- and there is probably about a .00001% chance of this- USFS decides to look into it on their own.

the timing is "convenient" indeed...sorry if some folks are offended if I question the suspect timing of all this, but you know, even if team Czisny is being 100% honest, some WILL be suspicious just because of what happened last year and the events of the past few months.

RD
05-25-2012, 07:11 PM
As for Gracie Gold, well- jury's still out on her. At least she gets 2 GP assignments and a possible shot at the GPF if she impresses. I think it is way too soon to know who the frontrunners are for the 2013 US world team. Last year, who would have had Wagner on the list?

It COULD be Gold...it COULD be Wagner...it COULD be Zhang...it could even be Nagasu or Zawadzki (don't laugh).

pingu
05-25-2012, 07:17 PM
ITA!!! When she struggled at her competition prior to Worlds, I would think that she would have questioned why she didn't land any jumps. It wasn't like it was a major competition such as Nationals or Worlds. I wouldn't think she would have been really nervous yet she couldn't land a jump. A person would just instinctively know something wasn't right.

But she wouldn't have done an MRI. How many skaters do you know that started to have problems with jumps and went straight to the doctor for an MRI?
This exam is done when you have pain. She didn't have pain then, or maybe she had but it was so subtle that she thought it was jut caused by training. The skaters are constantly checked by the team doctor and physio, and when Alissa started to have pain in her hip, she did an MRI.
I really don't get why you guys have doubt about this. I know that the skaters are not obliged to say everything that happens to them to the media, and only the coach, team doctor and physio know the truth, but in this case what has been written by the media sounds plausible to me. Maybe she didn't say the full truth, but relax, we are never going to find that out because there is something called professional confidentiality. I fully trust the team doctor and physio of every federation (way more than the federations themselves), and I know that if any medical news about a skater is published, it's because we are allowed to know only that part, and that's how it has to be. I know that people are courious, but IMO when we are talking about health, the patient has the right to tell to the public what he wants. And we must respect his/her choice.

Cheylana
05-25-2012, 07:22 PM
It's not fair to Flatt IMHO if he doesn't at least try to dig deeper and not just take Czisny's word for it. But we know he's not going to do that. Unless- and there is probably about a .00001% chance of this- USFS decides to look into it on their own.
Unfortunately Rachael made it easy for herself by admitting to the injury right after Worlds. Hersh didn't do any meaningful investigative work; he just used Rachael's own words again her in his articles and made a few phone calls to USFSA officials and to Frank Carroll to drum up a media storm.

Alissa said she didn't know about the injury (or even feel pain) until well after Worlds, so either you believe her or you don't. She didn't say anything a reporter could use against her. Even if Hersh were suspicious about Alissa, I'm not sure what he could do about it. He could not look through Alissa's medical records or wiretap her phone. He could write an article saying he thinks Alissa is lying but that is arguably defamation, and with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

I'm willing to believe Alissa when she says she didn't know she was injured at the time. I think *at worst* she may have been in some denial about why she was skating so badly, but I don't think she deliberately hid an injury.

I don't want to see fire and brimstone rain down on Alissa, but it would be nice if folks could ease up on Rachael even though she didn't use her best judgment last year. In other words, err on the side of mercy all around! :)

ETA - Also, what pingu said!

RD
05-25-2012, 07:29 PM
That's true about Flatt...in retrospect it really was a mistake to come forward so soon...but I do give her (some) credit for being honest about the situation. I just wished she'd have seen the writing on the wall earlier and pulled out in time for the alternate to go.

But I can't help but wonder...if the Flatt situation hadn't happened last year- whether team Czisny would have handled this situation any differently...

AlisonS
05-25-2012, 07:46 PM
What is kind of fishy to me is that this ailment is being portrayed both as:
1. The cause of the bad skate at Worlds
2. Completely undetectable at the time of Worlds
Seems to be one of the two can be true but not both.

Nothing personal against Alissa and I hope she has a complete recovery.

Enough elite skaters have had this problem that it is probably time for some big donor to pony up and send the USFSA an MRI machine.

PDilemma
05-25-2012, 07:55 PM
Enough elite skaters have had this problem that it is probably time for some big donor to pony up and send the USFSA an MRI machine.

For what purpose? You can't just do random MRIs on anyone. rfisher, who knows way more about radiology than the rest of us, already did a good job explaining why that is simply not feasible.

I find it crazy that people cannot accept that injuries, particularly injuries caused by repetitive use, just happen to elite athletes. That is true across all sports.

As for Flatt, she was diagnosed before Worlds. Alissa was diagnosed recently. Big difference.

Anya
05-25-2012, 07:57 PM
What is kind of fishy to me is that this ailment is being portrayed both as:
1. The cause of the bad skate at Worlds
2. Completely undetectable at the time of Worlds
Seems to be one of the two can be true but not both.

Why not? If it was something that caused a leg to work 'funny', but did not manifest in any pain, it is perfectly reasonable that she would not know that she was injured (unless she had an in-depth examination, which she presumably had no reason to undergo). A triple jump take off or landing is a pretty 'extreme' condition for human muscles, so anything less than proper would throw the process off, while more mundane activities, like walking or running might remain unaffected.

triple_toe
05-25-2012, 08:06 PM
I think the reason why people are so upset with Alissa's skate is that it could be seen a mile away. She had an awful showing at the GPF, a terrible send off skate, a *very* shaky nationals, a horrible pre-worlds competition, and was apparently off all week in practice in Nice. Granted, the GPF skate was due to a calf injury, but by the time of the send off and nationals, that was supposedly "completely healed" according to team Czisny.

Pingu, perhaps you could help out with this one: I get that the injury might not have been painful up until recently, but could it really have been causing Czisny to lose her jumps four months prior to the MRI (early January) but remaining otherwise unnoticed?