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View Full Version : Czisny to undergo surgery for torn labrum in left hip



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Cheylana
05-24-2012, 10:46 PM
I completely agree. Unfortunately, there are some side-effects of sport that only come out after years. This means that you can actually understand if a movement is particularly dangerous after many years it has been performed. We will find out the effect of the quads on the body in about a decade, IMO, and it will be too late for many skaters to do anything.
I'm sure you are right but :( anyway!

Sasha'sSpins
05-24-2012, 10:53 PM
If this really is her career ender, I wish she had ended it in 2011 instead, right after she won GPF, regained her Nationals title, and placed a strong 5th at Worlds with a beautiful long program.

Now she is retiring after a disappointing season where she fell more than she landed triples at GPF, Challenge Cup and Worlds, and with a sinfully boring long program to boot.

Either way, I hope she has a speedy recovery.

Has Alissa announced her retirement somewhere? :confused:

jlai
05-24-2012, 11:09 PM
'What If' can go on forever, you can't just change one event and assume all else would stay the same. Maybe if Mirai had gone last year instead of Rachel she would have won, and her confidence as world Champion would have allowed her to win Nationals again this year, making Alissa the third spot, not Agnes. Who knows...

Thank you. I completely agree.

Anyway, could USFS send an alternate to worlds in the future just in case? I understand there's expense involved, but Abbott did it in 2007, didn't he? And trained all the way to worlds (as should all alternates)

I think people who don't ever want Czisny to come back do miss one thing though. First, she's come back before. In fact, she's the first one who made it back to the top at nationals after barely managing any triple in the free skate the year before. Usually in the past once you're out of the top you're out of the top forever. Czisny has set a precedent re: comebacks. Second, ever since the age rule loop hole closes, it's harder to succeed at the age of 15, 16. That's why longevity and support of older skaters is important.

On top of that, I don't think USFSA should support any one skater for the sake of supporting that skater. No one skater is the sure bet or sure loser throughout her entire career. But any given year, there's one or two US lady who're going to rock it at worlds, and it's USFSA's job to "guess" (using comp results) who they are. That skater will change from year to year. So if one year Czisny comes back and wins another GPF, heck, consider her seriously for the world team, please. Who's skating well at the moment should count, more than who's "proved themselves" the year before or early in the season. That's why I think talk about Ashley being the sure thing is also premature.

For all my criticism of the US federation, I think they do have good intentions behind their actions. It's just that it always...takes them a while. (and I have a few examples on top of my head) Now ISU...I think that's the evil one. :EVILLE:

RD
05-24-2012, 11:49 PM
Who's skating well at the moment should count, more than who's "proved themselves" the year before or early in the season. That's why I think talk about Ashley being the sure thing is also premature.


Yes- I also think the talk about Wagner is premature. It's nice that she was able to have a breakout season this year, but next season the slate is wiped clean (for the most part). No current US ladies skater has been able to successfully defend her title. Wagner is also untested in the sense that traditionally she has always been chasing the top skater(s), internationally AND nationally. But going into next season she will be THE top US skater. How will she handle that pressure? Even if she can handle it, will she stay healthy enough to remain in the hunt?

Take a look at Czisny's trajectory from 2010, to 2011, to 2012. I know that sort of roller-coaster defines her career and is not really representative of what might happen to other skaters, but the point is that a skater one season does not necessarily equal the same skater in another. Wagner must now prove she has staying power and last season wasn't just a fluke...

rfisher
05-24-2012, 11:56 PM
Has Alissa announced her retirement somewhere? :confused:

Only by those posters who wish that were true. :lol: She most certainly has not announced any such thing and is planning to skate at NHK.

It must be so frustrating for the Alissa non-fans for this not to be hers, her coaches, her parents, her dogs, the USFSA or somebody's fault. And anybody who doubts pingu's explanation of the injury can simply google it for themselves and will find exactly what she's said. AND that the surgery is not complicated and athletes are back to doing what they do in 2-4 months. Or, you can continue to nurture your private conspiracies.

Aussie Willy
05-24-2012, 11:58 PM
I think at the end of the day this is like any repetitve movement that your body does again and again and again. Skating jumping is not a natural thing for the body to do (well skating is not a natural thing for that matter). After a period of time, which can sometimes take many years, it is going to say "Stop it! I can't handle it any more."

For example I don't think I am the only one who gets pain in the wrist from using a mouse. One of the reasons I stopped playing Angry Birds on my laptop.

UGG
05-25-2012, 12:02 AM
The post I was replying to was based on the notion of 3 spots:



I was just pointing out the absurdity of the "what if" game. In addition to the scores not being comparable between competitions, and having no idea how Agnes would have done, there is just no way of knowing what may have been different. Maybe if Agnes had gone, she and Ashely would have collided on practice ice, taking them out of the competition. 'What If' can go on forever, you can't just change one event and assume all else would stay the same. Maybe if Mirai had gone last year instead of Rachel she would have won, and her confidence as world Champion would have allowed her to win Nationals again this year, making Alissa the third spot, not Agnes. Who knows...

Its just my personal opinion, I did not say it was absolute or anything.

jeez we have been playing the "Zhang should have been sent instead of Skater X " for the last 4 years why can't I say that I don't think those three would have gotten three spots? :lol:

The whole uproar last year was because everyone here was sure that Mirai would have been able to place better than 9th. So if its pointless to play the "what if" game, then what is the point of the uproar if we won't, like you said, be able to ever know what could have really happened? i think her coach even said she could have gotten the job done.

kwanfan1818
05-25-2012, 12:10 AM
I was just pointing out the absurdity of the "what if" game.
"What if?" applies to both situations: i.e., Zawadzki as alternate or Zawadzki as US #3. I didn't print out the WS before Worlds, but I believe she would have been third in WS before Nice and would have skated the prelims. Where she would have skated I don't know, but I don't think she would have been top 12 WS and in the draw for the last two groups, like Wagner (24) and Czisny (26), and she wasn't top 15 WS, the odds were much greater that she'd have been skating in the first two groups than in the first three in the middle group. On the other hand, skating the prelims might have shaken out some of the jitters. Had she substituted for Czisny, she wouldn't have skated prelims, but the WS issue is the same.

I don't see a problem with the "what if" and trying to figure out the pros and cons. I think it's as silly to say that Zawadzki would have definitely not made top nine as it is to say that she definitely would have, but pointing out her strengths and weaknesses is discussion.

What I do think is ridiculous is insisting in the face of posts by professionals here that explain the injury that Czisny knew she was injured and should have withdrawn, and that she should be sanctioned for not doing so. She must be relieved that she has an answer, because at the time, she said she didn't know what was happening, and she was excoriated by some for saying so.

MacMadame
05-25-2012, 01:00 AM
Definitely agree with you on the Alissa situation, but wouldn't we need two ladies who can skate well at Worlds? Or would we just send one lady and hope she finishes first or second?

While it's mathematically possible for two non-podium contenders to get 3 spots, it's much much easier if one of your team is pretty much guaranteed to get on the podium. In the years when we had Cohen and Kwan, both of them were often in the top 5 and that means getting 3 spots was a no-brainer.

But if you have two gals who are capable of top 10 performances, but top 5 isn't guaranteed for any of them, then it's much more likely their scores will add up to more than 13. For example, let's say one is 7th and one is 8th. That's a really good placement and a lot of countries would kill to have TWO gals who can crack the top 10. But it adds up to 15, not 13.

Alex Forrest
05-25-2012, 01:33 AM
I think Alissa's past skating history was a pretty good alibi for her, even though she equally bombed at that competition two weeks before Worlds without landing a triple (and even a 2axel). When "Reliable Rachael" turned in her worst performance at Worlds it was clear she had something going on, and she admitted to it. When Alissa turned in back to back disasters, she didn't really need to explain it away, since that is just how her career has been. I wish Alissa well, hope the surgery helps her recover enough to have a successful pro career. Imagine if this injury hinders her from doing her spins and spirals anymore? As for Olympic level skating, well, she was barely there anyway, let's just hope she recovers enough to have a pro career.

Sasha'sSpins
05-25-2012, 03:29 AM
Only by those posters who wish that were true. :lol: She most certainly has not announced any such thing and is planning to skate at NHK.

It must be so frustrating for the Alissa non-fans for this not to be hers, her coaches, her parents, her dogs, the USFSA or somebody's fault. And anybody who doubts pingu's explanation of the injury can simply google it for themselves and will find exactly what she's said. AND that the surgery is not complicated and athletes are back to doing what they do in 2-4 months. Or, you can continue to nurture your private conspiracies.

Agreed. I think Alissa will have a long road back. But I prefer to wait until SHE announces her retirement (if she ever does) rather than to pay attention to pre-mature assumptions.

I'd like to add my thanks to pingu for the explanation on this hip injury. It sounds just dreadful. I wish Alissa a full recovery-whether she skates again or not I want her to be healthy above all.

The Fly On The Wall
05-25-2012, 03:33 AM
I'm not buying the whole "Oh, I didn't know I was injured" bit at all. Yes, I read the posts explaining that you don't feel the pain till later. But the timing of it all is just a liiiiiiittle too convenient. I'm thinking she knew damn well she was injured and sat on the information for the appropriate amount of time to avoid ending up like Rachael. Flame away.

Angela-Fan
05-25-2012, 04:05 AM
:drama:

Alex Forrest
05-25-2012, 04:37 AM
I'm not buying the whole "Oh, I didn't know I was injured" bit at all. Yes, I read the posts explaining that you don't feel the pain till later. But the timing of it all is just a liiiiiiittle too convenient. I'm thinking she knew damn well she was injured and sat on the information for the appropriate amount of time to avoid ending up like Rachael. Flame away.

I tend to agree. Everyone learned from Rachael last year that if you put in a less than normal performance you NEVER state you had an injury. It's better to attend senior worlds and not land one triple or double axel, and THEN find out 'afterwards' that docs say you are injured. Seriously, Alissa bombed almost every comp the past several months. She didn't get 4C's so went to another where she fell and didn't land any triples. Then two weeks later shows up for Worlds. It does seem convenient, but then again I wonder how much good would it do her psyche if she repeated the same performance from two weeks before (which she basically did, all falls and no content). Alissa wasn't paid to skate at Worlds was she? Why would she continue to harm her reputation like that?

skfan
05-25-2012, 05:28 AM
On top of that, I don't think USFSA should support any one skater for the sake of supporting that skater. No one skater is the sure bet or sure loser throughout her entire career. But any given year, there's one or two US lady who're going to rock it at worlds, and it's USFSA's job to "guess" (using comp results) who they are. That skater will change from year to year. So if one year Czisny comes back and wins another GPF, heck, consider her seriously for the world team, please. Who's skating well at the moment should count, more than who's "proved themselves" the year before or early in the season. That's why I think talk about Ashley being the sure thing is also premature.

For all my criticism of the US federation, I think they do have good intentions behind their actions. It's just that it always...takes them a while. (and I have a few examples on top of my head) Now ISU...I think that's the evil one. :EVILLE:

why does the USFSA have to 'guess'? can't they just judge what is on the ice?

maybe i'm reading it wrong, but to me it reads a bit like you are in favor of tea-leaves reading (by looking at competitions before nationals) to pre-select the favorites who will be given the benefit of the doubt... short of falling 7 times.

this sort of judging is a big turn off. and it hasn't yielded the desired outcomes for USFS either (unless their goal is just to send their personal favorites every year).

p.s. weren't you the one suggesting angela wang should have been given more credit for her strong FS relative to what the favorites put on the ice at this year's nationals? maybe if the judges judged what is on the ice instead of judge with a pre-determined matrix of possible podiums in their heads she would have beaten half the LP's of the final group... as you yourself said she should have... if i'm remembering your post correctly.

i seriously dislike the perpetual favoring of AC, but it's just as unreasonable to go to the other extreme and give her worse scores than she deserves at next year's nationals based on this year's worlds or next year's NHK.