PDA

View Full Version : Czisny to undergo surgery for torn labrum in left hip



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26

carriemarie
05-24-2012, 11:51 AM
Would you care to explain how well you think she could have done at Worlds, competing with a torn labrum, if it hadn't been for whatever other factors you think contributed to her dismal performance?


Maybe this has been discussed already...but if this is the case, why isn't there a "Rachel Flatt knowledge of competing with an injury punishment fee" being delivered from USFSA to Alissa?

Was she and her coaches REALLY not aware of her physical state? I find that hard to believe...

To me seems a double standard.

seabm7
05-24-2012, 12:12 PM
Was she and her coaches REALLY not aware of her physical state? I find that hard to believe...


I think it is possible. As explained by others, a tear in labrum itself does not cause any pain initially. She might not have felt anything during the World. Or felt some minor sprain at most, which could be dismissed as everyday muscle tiredness.

When I saw her live performance in Korea a few weeks ago, she did not try any Biellmann or layback style spins. I wondered for a while why she did not show her signature spin moves. Now I understand the situation.

If she had felt high level pains at the competitions, her spinning ability should have been affected, in addition to her jumps.

demetriosj
05-24-2012, 12:28 PM
Maybe this has been discussed already...but if this is the case, why isn't there a "Rachel Flatt knowledge of competing with an injury punishment fee" being delivered from USFSA to Alissa?

Was she and her coaches REALLY not aware of her physical state? I find that hard to believe...

To me seems a double standard.

Yep.

Yazmeen
05-24-2012, 02:23 PM
I will say it again: You can have this type of injury WITHOUT HAVING PAIN OR OTHER SPECIFIC SYMPTOMS. And in Alissa's case, she knows she has nerve issues which may have played into her lack of understanding into exactly what was going on. If this would have been Kwan suddenly bombing, yeah, injury would have been everyone's first thought. But this was Alissa, who has been known to meltdown fairly frequently in the past.

I'm sorry if this doesn't satisfy those of you who are just so damned pissed that the US Ladies once again didn't get that third spot and you want someone punished, but this is not the same situation as with Rachael. Rachael had a DEFINITIVE injury that she and her coach were aware of and she competed anyway, and it was very obvious that something was completely off kilter with her jumps. Even on this board, with Alissa, some people were also assuming she was just being headcase Alissa and had lost her nerve after her leg injury during GPF. There was not a definitive situation here of a coach (and skater) hiding an injury or trying to skate through it as with Rachael. I know this probably won't change any minds, but the bleating about "monitoring, and test skating, and blah, blah, blah" before Worlds is getting tiresome. Sorry if the current system doesn't satisfy you, but your upset over lost spots does not mean that USFS should radically change their system and incur additional expense and procedures just because some fans have this idea that we "deserve" a full contingent of skaters in any discipline. And before we roast Alissa any further, let's add Kimmie, Emily, Ashley, Rachael and Mirai to that fire because all of them also contributed to the loss of spots for Worlds and Olympics. We don't have 3 spots because we don't have a single consistent ladies skater (since Kwan and Cohen) who can be counted upon to medal and skate well enough at Worlds to get those 3 spots without worry. Period. Hopefully, this will change, but right now, it just ain't happening until we get a truly consistent US lady skater who can repeatedly give good performances on the Worlds scene.

ioana
05-24-2012, 02:41 PM
We don't have 3 spots because we don't have a single consistent ladies skater (since Kwan and Cohen) who can be counted upon to medal and skate well enough at Worlds to get those 3 spots without worry. Hopefully, this will change, but right now, it just ain't happening until we get a truly consistent US lady skater who can repeatedly give good performances on the Worlds scene.

Definitely agree with you on the Alissa situation, but wouldn't we need two ladies who can skate well at Worlds? Or would we just send one lady and hope she finishes first or second? Having two ladies who can place well enough to get to that magic 13pt total would also work -and that doesn't necessarily mean they'd need to win medals. Granted, we haven't had either one of these scenarios the past few years, but I don't understand why a medal winner is a must 'just' to get 3 spots.

IceIceBaby
05-24-2012, 02:45 PM
I wonder if anyone has ever compared Tara's and Michelle's injuries. It would either be fab to have Debbie Thomas do a study or it would scare off the parents of any present and future competitors. Is it just the 3 loop, made worse when combined with another 3 loop, or is it other jumps that cause hip problems? Seems to me there is something about the rotation of the hip before takeoff (similar to the golfers) and also something intrinsically wonky about the landing of the 3 loop that is worse than the others, not that any are easy on the body when landing on the hard ice, or worse, falling on it. (Hockey players just plain seem insane with their physicality.)


I think these kind of issues should be researched more. I don't think there is enough research of skating injuries and how to avoid them. If certain jumps harm the body more than others, then those jumps could be banned from competition, imo. I think especially the lutz is a harmful jump for the knee.

jlai
05-24-2012, 02:58 PM
Actually, not every one upset with the situation is crazyabout the third spot, nor do I think we need to punish skaters.

This sad situation is only a piece of a larger picture. Iknow it is easy to assume that any monitoring discussion is just a reactive response about Alissa, but discussions have been goingon for some time about mointoring skaters in the summer before deciding jgp spots and not going just by nationals, or even looking at early fall results before giving away SA host picks. Last summer there was a lengthy duscussion about using one summer comp to decide remaining jgp spots, and quite a few fsuers were supportive of that

My opinoion is that USFSa has always been slow to respond to changes, any change. It is not just one situation about Alissa, it is a long string of incidents that I am fed up with. If only the federation shows some baby steps in the right direction, I would have been contented. But if Usfsa is like the fans, then pobably any suggestions about possible monitoring are quashed, becuase any discussion about overall improvements is seen as a criticism against the Czisny team, which is jus t one situation among many. So any suggestion for improvement is followed by many reasons not to change, and nothing happens.


Another thing that can happen is that the federation tries something rash and drastic, and when it doesnt work, gives up for fear of being criticised. Imho change doesnt have to be expensive or drastic. In fact drastic change probably wont work.

While it is true that US doesnt have many podium worthy ladies, the notion "consistent skater" is also slighly pre-cop. Some of Kwan's jumps and spins would be downgraded under cop most likely

Sylvia
05-24-2012, 03:05 PM
Thank you, Yazmeen!


Definitely agree with you on the Alissa situation, but wouldn't we need two ladies who can skate well at Worlds? Or would we just send one lady and hope she finishes first or second? Having two ladies who can place well enough to get to that magic 13pt total would also work -and that doesn't necessarily mean they'd need to win medals. Granted, we haven't had either one of these scenarios the past few years, but I don't understand why a medal winner is a must 'just' to get 3 spots.
It isn't necessary.

Remember how close the U.S. ladies were from finishing 3rd/10th, 4th/9th, 5th/8th or 6th/7th at 2010 Worlds?

1 Mao ASADA JPN 197.58 2 2
2 Yu-Na KIM KOR 190.79 7 1
3 Laura LEPISTO FIN 178.62 3 6
4 Miki ANDO JPN 177.82 11 3
5 Cynthia PHANEUF CAN 177.54 8 4
6 Carolina KOSTNER ITA 177.31 4 5
7 Mirai NAGASU USA 175.48 1 11
8 Ksenia MAKAROVA RUS 169.64 5 8
9 Rachael FLATT USA 167.44 6 9

I'm not one to play the "what if/would have" game, but HAD Nagasu been the 3rd U.S. lady at 2011 Worlds (remember she had some momentum after winning the bronze at 4 Continents), PERHAPS she could have placed higher than the injured Rachael (i.e., 8th) to help retain 3 spots for 2012 Worlds, and then Agnes Zawadzki MIGHT have had a shot to place 9th or better in her Worlds debut. We'll never know, though.

As others have pointed out before, the 3rd spot is a luxury the U.S. could really use these days because it would increase the chance that 2 of 3 (relatively inconsistent) ladies could end up with a total of 13 points or less.

DickButtonFan
05-24-2012, 03:16 PM
I think what people really want to know is, is the usfsa monitoring their skaters when there have been known injuries. It was known Jeremy and Alissa had injuries this season.

Alissa injured her calf at the gpf, then had a poor showing at challenge cup. Did the usfsa inquire about a possible existing injury?

Jeremy was injured this season and withdrew from 4cc and then had a poor showing at CC. Again, did the usfsa inquire about an injury?

Rachael admitted injury at gpf in the past, the usfsa should have monitored her, did they?

These poor results could have possibly have been prevented, that the main concern.

Yazmeen
05-24-2012, 03:20 PM
I was actually thinking in terms of 2 ladies at Worlds; my point was that NONE of the current ladies can be counted upon to score well enough to bring in 3 spots when paired with any other lady or otherwise; sorry if that wasn't clear. We just don't have any lady who can be counted upon to score reasonably high at Worlds.

jlai
05-24-2012, 03:22 PM
It is not just injuries though. What if (heaven forbid)Gracie gets picked to go to 2013 worlds but she suddently has a growth spurt before worlds and loses her jumps? Should we send her or send an alternate along too just in case? Or is there another way around this?

Sylvia
05-24-2012, 03:25 PM
I respectfully disagree with your blanket statement, Yazmeen. :)

UGG
05-24-2012, 04:16 PM
Actually Emily was successful in assisting with three spots. In 2006, Kimmie's 1st place and Sasha's 3rd was enough...but I think Emily placed 7th? So if Kimmie or Sasha were not there, we would have had three spots. And its kind of funny actually-between all three of them, their placements add up less than 13.

In 2007, Kimmie and Emily were successful in retaining the three spots with a 4th and 9th place-it was close but they did it.

Emily did not go to worlds in 2008 or ever after.

Yazmeen
05-24-2012, 04:34 PM
I respectfully disagree with your blanket statement, Yazmeen. :)

I hope you are right; I'm basing my statement on their results so far and what these skaters have demonstrated up through Worlds 2012, not potential for future results (or future skaters who have not been to Worlds). I equally respectfully hope you are REALLY right and they come through! :lol::cool:

And my apologies to Emily, my mistake.

IceAlisa
05-24-2012, 04:42 PM
Ashley was awfully close to medalling--and had Alena not been grossly over-scored in the SP, she would have medalled. Gracie has a lot of work to do but in the right hands, she'd do just fine.